Cheltenham Festival
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Sprinter Sacre - Arkle Winner 2012
Sprinter Sacre - Arkle Winner 2012
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To be fair,it did not take a genius to see that this is a star in the making after his 1st run over fences.
He has so far just looked simply superb with impressive performances,backed up by the times hes produced. I do think however that we do need to put things into perspective a tad before we hail the 2nd coming. So far hes beaten horses that will not be competitive in the Arkle or QM,aside from Peddlers Cross who im confident did not run his race. So he has far better quality horses to face in what i imagine will be his next race,at Cheltenham.Be it the Arkle or much likely the QM. There,he has to go back to the one place he has failed to win at.The only time hes faced a track totally different to those hes been hosing up on. Thats where the superlatives i am reading can be truly justified,not on flat tracks beating inferior horses racking up good times,but at the festival beating high class horses that have either proved it(SE,BZ),or his fellow top novices. |
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*less likely the QM
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I agree Budd. He definately had mitigating circumstances in a totally different race 12 months ago, and though I am plainly a supporter and remain hopeful, he cannot be crowned at this stage.
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Btw, can we not get bogged down in times and ratings please like on the Zarkandar thread?
Gets a bit boring after a while  I wonder if Cue Card connections are glad they didn't run yesterday? Might sound a stupid question but at least it would know where they stood in the Arkle. I've also got Cue Card at 20's ew from before his first race at Chepstow. Sprinters run yesterday worried me about my Cue Card bet, because I can see Cue Card trying to go with him early on. Unless they go hell for leather I can see Sprinter pulling his way to the front and Cue Card could easily go with him and burn himself out. If Cue Card does take him on early I can see him being a sitting duck for those travelling behind. What impressed me with Sprinter is how clever he is at his fences. He got in close quite a few times but sorted himself out and put himself right. In the same situation Menorah would just plow through the top of it and hope for the best. |
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I'm pretty prepared to say he is going to be the next 2 mile star tbh. I think all the evidence is there. Yes Peddler's wasn't at his best so I have been told a gazillion times but sometimes very good horses get made to look ordinary or under par by great ones. Frankel and Canford Cliffs springs to mind. Now he hasn't achieved anything yet so obviously he can't be lauded as a Champion but I do think it is pretty obvious now if he can stay fit he will be the next big thing. I mean if a Master Minded or a Sizing Europe did that in the Game Spirit yesterday you would have still been mightily impressed. Barry Geraghty has described him as a once in a lifetime horse. Look at what he's sat on! There is no hype he is the real deal and myself and others predicted this on the first page of this thread.
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Hope BG isn't setting himself up for a fall.
Latest pronouncement includes 'he has more gears than Moscow Flyer', 'I've never been on a horse that jumps a fence as fast' and 'jockeys wait their whole careers for a horse like this'. I think he quite likes him! |
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I would also add that it is quite rare for this operation (unlike some others) to hype up a horse this much. Nobody knows what will happen in March, but the statements they have made are quite uuncharacteristic and that is interesting in itself.
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Nice bit of trumpet blowing there MM,although as yet hes not proved hes the real deal,not where it matters!!
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accurate ratings are the lifeblood of race analysis so should be discussed
rare are those judges who can watch races and form accurate assessments using their eyes alone even though many believe than can do it - The Duke and Ben Hanbury come to mind, they were so accurate with their visual assessment it was scary anyway SS has already produced form far better than most Arkle winners produce in the race itself and that is why he is such a short price along with the visual impression which is just stunning |
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Agree 100% judo, to hear about different interpretations, and possibilities, is surely why we are here, not to gush as fan clubs of the hyped horses of the day?
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Yep,totally agree.
We all have the choice about joining in on certain conversations,so wheres the problem? Personally speaking,ratings conversations and times etc are not my cup of tea,but i dont mind reading peoples views on them,as long as the thread stays on topic. |
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we had a 3yo with Ben Hanbury in the early 90s that won its maiden on debut and he turned to us in the paddock and said "you are going to get either 78 or 79 for that" and indeed we were allotted 79 - maybe some element of experience there as he knew the grade etc but nevertheless spookily accurate and that wasn't the only time. Clever bloke and he did well to put up with us oiks with such grace
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I said bogged down in ratings and stats, i didn't say don't mention them.
Nothing wrong with saying how you rate a horse, what mark you think he ran too, how you think the times compare |
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yeh,thats a fair point,that Zarkander thread was getting a bit much imo
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Apologies if i was coming across as abit of an @rse
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I am actually rather surprised that everyone on here is almost discussing this horse as the second coming, i was not impressed 100% yesterday at all and am very happy with my ew the field against him. I have backed him at 9/4 but only as a savor in my book before yesterday. I don't go with times at all, i think times do not tell the whole story and we have to look at what he beat. I do not think any of them except french opera ran to form at all, he went away from them cruising as he did and was visually impressive but he but he beat a decent yard stick in FO as he ought to have with HF and Zaynar running no sort of race whatsoever and looking considerably undercooked before half way! 9/4 saver is ok, but to back him now at evs, in a race with very different conditions and track, no thanks!
Don't get me wrong he might be the next azertyuiop/moscow flyer, i hope he is, but i can't see it myself! |
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And talk of the champion chase, is def' a year too early!
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STS No1 - if French opera ran to his best as you say, and Sprinter destroyed him (albeit receiving some weight), would not that performance in itself from a horse having his 3rd chase over fences be pretty serious novice form going into the Arkle?! In fact, I cannot recall better novice form going into an Arkle....
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Champion Chase talk is madness. Dont nobody learn? How many times has there been this talk and the novice in question has gone on to get beat in his novice event, absolute rubbish
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Well yes, and i hope im not contradicting myself too much but what i tried to say was at 9/4 he is a good bet for this Arkle, but at evs, no thanks on the back of that. I was also trying to say if HF ran to his best, i would have thought he would be closer, maybe even 2nd, i think SS would still have won like he did, but not by as far and we always wonder what these 'bridle' horses have left at the line when their asked to battle.
Like i said, i do not look at times, times do not tell the whole story, all races are run too differently for anyone to get too carried away with times imo. If SS was to get into a scrap up the cheltenham hill with any of them next 4 in the betting for this, i wouldn't be betting against any of them beating him. Looking at his supreme, he seemed to run out of steam farely quickly, ok a year older and wiser for fences he does look very good indeed but can't the same be said for any of the others? I was impressed, just not as much as some of you guys as i am trying to read between the lines. |
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what form entitled hf to finish second yesterday, iyo?
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well barry effectively put the kibosh on going the QMCC when interviewed
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imo french opera ran about 6-8 lbs below his best, and will improove for his next outing, imo the form line is im so lucky!it was getting 5 lbs and beaten 8 lengths by SS, in the victorchandler im so lucky beaten 14 lengths by al ferof off levels
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yes but Al Ferof was all out and SS was good for another 5 lengths easily if he had been asked to sprint for home after the last
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Yup spose you could be right alleged22, as like i said, very happy with my ew book about the next 3 after PC in the betting, inc my 7/1 alf and 10/1 CC.
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also al ferof was about 80% cooked in the VC plenty of improovement to come, how much improovment can we expect from SS in three weeks not a lot i imagine i reckon he,s about 95% cooked and NH will just tick him over
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I think SS can produce much higher figures than he did yesterday - he never came out of second gear, no way is Al Ferof going to improve past him through fitness
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Every time i watch SS, i hope he is the next coming and will go to the very top, but then i just remember his run in the supreme. He was ridden like a very good one, the expectation by the jockey that day was that he was going to and could sprint away from them, but half way up the hill, he was done. Ok, another year, he is entitled to have improved a lot. But to get carried away like the press would want you to believe now is silly imo, till he has done it in the Arkle, i am sitting on the fence with my savor bet on him at 9/4.
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i reckon he,ll tread water again in the final furlong
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R.Carver - I cannot recall better novice form AFTER The Arkle!
Best rated 2M novice that I could find was Tidal Bay on 166, and prior to Friday, Sprinter Sacre was 161. He has to be around that 166 already, wouldn't you say? JR - whatever happened to Ben Hanbury? Did I hear right in that he was a cab driver  or was someone pulling my pisser? |
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if races are decided on ratings we may as well give him the race now...
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Alleged - it's NEVER that simple
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exactly mate
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I nailed my colours to the mast a long time ago about Al Ferof in the Arkle - in fact before Xmas I said he will not win the race, he just is not quick enough and he has had two grade 1 races which should have allowed him to prove that he is - yet he has failed to do so. I'm not normally so bullish but it is clear to me that he needs to raise his game significantly to even stand a chance and I say he won't be able to do it
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Fill your boots laying another overhyped fav for the arkle
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think you will find there are plenty on here who backed it at the opening 10s, 8s, 6s etc seeing we have been talking about the horse since October at least...
pretty sure there will be plenty laying off their stakes |
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There are none so blind as those who cannot see. Quickest horse in the race, best/cleverest jumper by some distance - worth 10/15 lengths? He's not the price he is because of the hype - he's the price he is because the bookies are frightened to go bigger. I wonder what Ruby said to Paul Nicholls when he got off Hold Fast?
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Ruby:
He didn't feel right after the 4th, seemed to blow up a bit too much. Nichols: We will get him looked at, see if anything comes to light Something along those lines perhaps ff? |
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Hugh - absolutely agree. Here's hoping he fulfills his promise.
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i am with seathestars backed him in the supreme last year thought he was the winner turning in and hoping for a place when jumping the last decided then a flat track would see him in better light hence a tasty bet at christmas when beating peddlers NOW can see him winning the arkle but wont be a total surprise if something out battles him up the hill
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