Cheltenham Festival
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Cue Card
Cue Card
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Besides the Supreme and CH, he is also going to be entered in the Neptune. This could be a sensible option as he has already shown that he stays the longer distance.
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I hope Cue card goes for the Supreme as he would be a cert, however if he does go for the Champion and is buried in the pack rather than asked to race so prominently then I really can see him getting closer to Menorah, he was racing from a long way out and the way the race was run from the top of the hill suited Menorah who just bided his time and then kicked after the others had carried him into the race.
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I see where you're both coming from and it has crystallised an idea I hadn't quite firmed up on. Despite someone on here saying he showed nothing off the bridle yesterday, I thought he was staying on well at the death. He either wants a faster pace with some cover in the Champion to help him settle before turning it on down the hill, or if connections feel he hasn't shown the necessary physical development over the next few months to go the CH route this year, the extra distance of the Neptune would not be a problem. I think that would be the better of the two novices for him.
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HES THE DOUBLE OF DUNGUIB EXCEPT HE ACTUALLY GOT TO THE FESTIVAL UNBEATEN
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With Menorah there is a lot more to come, he still has tremendous scope for improvement which must be frightening for Binocular's connections. When you compare 4s Menorah with 5s Peddlers Cross you know where the value doesnt lie.
Controversial but I dont think Cue Card will turn out to be top class as he doesnt have the turn of foot of a Champion ... think yesterday told us that much earlier than it would have taken to suss if connections had followed the novice preps. Must have a great chance in the Supreme but dont fancy him amongst the seniors in future unless they allow him time to develop that kick amongst novices if there is going to be one. |
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Cant believe anyone could write CC off afetr that run?!
The horse still didnt settle that well. He stayed on again well at the end. He has a full year to mature like Menorah has. Obviously its a guess how we will continue to develop and mature but he's still well on course to be a future Champion Hurdler. I agree with red and white about the Neptune, and might get lucky with my AP bet on this race. |
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We'll see.
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He is being pitched too high too early, that isnt allowing a novice horse to develop in my understanding.
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i never ever once believed he was this great wonderhorse and never ever believed he could win the champion hurdle ever and i saw nothing yesterday to change my mind
menorah YES cue card NO |
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Cue Card's run yesterday was comfortably better than anything Dunguib put in pre-supreme, and Dunguib wasn't far away
Cue Card is already good enough to win most Supremes imo |
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exposed now
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^ so there's no further improvement in a 4yo with 5 career starts, only 3 over hurdles and two of those three arguably short of his optimum trip?
Poppycock to state he's exposed, frankly. |
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Poppycock is generous!
I think the horse will have learnt more yesterday than in any run he has had. |
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i would have liked for cue card to have won but looking at the bigger picture long term for the horse....getting beat 5 lengths off levels in only his 3rd race and 1st real test against a leading fancy for a champion hurdle isn't at all bad......and if anyone wants to crab the run in any way will in turn be crabbing what menorah achieved yesterday also.
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not really menorah destroyed him and was value for at least 12l.im not against cue card i like him and yes he ran well better than i expected and he is probably a genuine 155-160 horse which is a good level but he is claerly NOT this wonder horse what people made him out to be and weather u like it or not he is vulnerable in the supreme novices
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alvarado you make my eyes bleed :S the 2nd and 3rd will go onto better things than Menorah...(nap)
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can u get better than winning the champion hurdle 4 years o the spin
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As a 4yr old he should be in one of the novice races imo.
If you take a look at 4yr olds that ended up in the CHurdle,it dont make great reading for their future.Look at what Katchit has done since,also cel Halo,Crack away Jack,Detroit City,and Binocular has been rather in and out. Now it may just be coincidence,but their looks to me a case of trainers trying to do too much too soon.Massive difference between a CHurdle with tough streetwise horses,and a Bumper,supreme or Triumph,and i wonder if these 4 year olds are ready for that sort of campaign. |
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Eric - can you tell me your idea of a horse with a turn of foot? I've read several times (even on other threads, and made comments, that you've not responded to) your opinions on this, and you've been critical of Go Native, Dunguib & Cue Card. I disagree with you (they can't always produce every race) and there may well be more I'd like to hear about. FWIW, I think you talk a lot of sense in the main and I agree with you on most issues, though everyone's entitled to their opinion. I got the Bula wrong the other day as I didn't think Menorah had the 'gears' of the other principals - he's proved me wrong in spades as I've never seen him quicken like that before. I felt a bit better about it when Hobbs confessed to being staggered by that too. PS - my idea of a Champion Hurdler without a potent turn of foot would be Katchit or Punjabi. As for the contenders, I'd nominate Solwhit (obvious really, though grinders & stayers fare well in the race) though before the Bula I'd have said Menorah! At least I'm no after-timer!
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You've hit the nail on the head when you say you didn't appreciate Menorah could quicken the way he did. He surprised his own trainer. That is after 8 runs over hurdles. Underscore morris says Cue Card will never have a turn of foot and Alvarado beams in claiming Cue Card has now gone as far as he can. Their opinions are based on three runs so I take them with a pinch of salt.
Personally I think yesterday's form will prove strong and all three horses will improve. I think SC and Cue card are being underestimated as received wisdom says PN can't train two mile hurdlers and five year olds shouldn't run in the Champion. How much will each improve? How did the bizarre weather affect their respective preparations in the two weeks before yesterday's race? Only time will tell. I think Tizzard has put himself in a good position with some shrewd planning this season. In three well chosen races he's proved his horse can jump, stay two and a half, run quickly over two miles around Cheltenham and compete with the best. He can give his horse a break and prepare him for Cheltenham with all options open. |
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I wouldn't have said Hardy Eustace or Brave Inca had a potent turn of foot either - they were just very tough, genuine and classy - which is why they beat the appraently better travelling but soft speed horses like Rooster, Harchibald and Macs Joy.
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Harchibaldy ... his turn of foot didnt surprise me at all as he has shown it before in lesser company. It was this race that really opened my eyes to him and the tremendous pace he has. He absolutely pulverised them at Kempton extending all the way to the line. Kempton is not a stayers track yet he had an easy powerful kick which stood out. Couldnt believe he lost next time think Hobbs may have been giving him a run before the Supreme where we all saw that kick again showing he could also do it up the hill on a staying track. That's what you want from a Champion Hurdler he has pace at any track imo. The others dont extend as easily as him in a finish and have less gears. Think Binocular has a big task to beat Menorah, a horse who has been under-estimated so far. If Dunguib had done what Menorah has recently the hype would be unreal.
Saturday December 26 2009 Kempton Park 12:45 - Result Williamhill.com - Bonus25 Novices' Hurdle £16000 added, 4yo plus, 2m, Class 2, £10019 penalty, 8 ran Going: Good to Soft, Soft in places Winning Time: 3m 59.9s Pos. Draw Dist. Horse Wt Jockey Trainer Age SP 1 Menorah (IRE) 11-5 R Johnson P J Hobbs 4 7/2 tracked leaders, not fluent 2nd, led just after 3 out, drew clear approaching last, impressive opened 4/1 touched 4/1 2 12 Bellvano (GER) 11-8 A P McCoy N J Henderson 5 8/11 f held up in rear, headway 4 out, chased winner after next, soon ridden to challenge, one pace opened 8/11 touched 8/11 £800-£1000 £400-£500 £1600-£2200 £800-£1100 (x4) £727-£1000 £436-£600 £400-£550 £363-£500 (x2) 3 19 Dr Livingstone (IRE) 11-8 J A McCarthy C R Egerton 4 20/1 soon in rear, slow 2nd, not fluent 3 out, some late headway, never able to challenge opened 20/1 touched 20/1 £7500-£300 |
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Eric - you know the Kempton form (when Menorah quickened well) is a light year from top-drawer so that's easily dismissed. I was so surprised by what he showed at Cheltenham and I'm puzzled by his SUPREMACY over two potential superstars. Is he really THAT good? He's continued to surprise me and I won't be underestimating him again. I can't believe Cue Card & (especially) Silviniaco Conti aren't top-class and by that rationale, Menorah's produced Champion Hurdle form, albeit without being tested by any of last season's protagonists. FWIW, I think this'll prove rock-solid form and I'll be looking forward to seeing the fifth home, Cristal Bonus as he's already shown high-class form in France. Clerks Choice has looked more than useful too which adds credence to the form. PS - did the race (from just before the turn) remind anyone else of Best Mate's third Gold Cup? I know it was a chase and over much further but Menorah was electric at a crucial stage - like a real professional.
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You arelooking for hints small and large when betting antepost and experience told me that was a really good performance at Kempton, he can do it at staying tracks as well. You make a call antepost based on experience and gut feeling it isnt pounds and lengths that is for race after-timers called 'ratings experts' who still cant get it right after the event a lot of the time.
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I like the way menorah strode to the line in bula.
he covers an enormouse amount of ground in his faster paces,with a beautiful stride pattern. i have already backed pedlers and nothing will out game him but i have seen the light with menorah,and ithink nr no bet 4/1 with laddies is a decent price. |
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Zaidpour looked much more of a Supreme winner to me - the Champion Hurdle may be the easier option for Cue Card
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still think cue cards a certainty for the supreme ?
zaidpour is a monster and there will be plenty of others to come out yet cue card will be doing well to get placed let alone win |
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Was that a great race today then?? million miles from Cue Cards race on Saturday,i know that.
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christ, alvarado slating cue card's form with dunraven but is happy to label zaidpour a monster after beating that field.
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He did it impressively today,but honestly he needs to face a decent horse before showering him with accolades such as i am reading on here.
Calm down lads!! |
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surely there genuine 130 horses aint they
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Avocado thinks Cue Card will be lucky to place in the Supreme yet thinks Menorah will win the champion hurdle...
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I've just watched Menorah's Kempton novice race. It seems to me that he was pulling readily clear of inferior horses that were already under pressure and I don't see how that 'turn of foot' was any different to what Cue Card showed in his previous race. Certainly it's nothing like the rapid acceleration Menorah produced against good horses on Saturday.
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Yes Next
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Next what? How about writing something to demonstrate you have at least one brain cell. I haven't seen any evidence so far but hope springs eternal and we have been evolving for a few million years after all.
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menorah machine
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Fair enough. I'd like to see him ahead of the Binocular we saw last year anyway. Credit to Binocular for his win but I don't believe he's a two mile superstar as I think he beat a lot of stayers last year. The force is currently with Menorah and he has his own thread.
Back on topic I think Cue Card is a bad bet for the supreme. There's no doubt in my mind that if connections think he's showing the speed of a two miler they'll go for the champion, and if not they'll go for the old Sun Alliance, a race for which they can't seem to settle on a name these days. |
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If he was put in the longer race it looks like he'll be up against a lot of the horses he galloped all over last March. As for the betting in the Champion Hurdle it's a joke. People are taking half Cue Card's price for Dunguib. I'd love to see that horses over fences where he belongs.
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Cue Card now set to have another prep. before the end of January. Likely targets are the Haydock trial or the 2 and 1/2 mile novice trial at Cheltenham.
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CUE CARD
4 b g King's Theatre - Wicked Crack. Unbeaten both bumper outings last season culminating in Festival bumper at Cheltenham. Won novice hurdle debut impressively beating Dear Sam 13 lengths at Aintree in October then beat Dunraven Storm just as easily at Cheltenham in early November. Rated 160 on that and far from disgraced when going into highest grade and finishing four and a half lengths second to Menorah in grade two hurdle at Cheltenham December 11. Now 159. An outstanding novice. "He travelled and jumped very well at Cheltenham but to my mind he didn't finish his race behind Menorah - but he still ran a cracking race. The only thing I would say about that - and I would not take one thing away from Menorah - is that there were ten days before that race when our gallop was frozen and in that time Cue Card would have gone real fast four or five times. That's not an excuse just a fact. Most of the horses I ran around that time ran similar races. By the time we got on to Newbury and Exeter the horses had been fast three or four times and it showed in the results. On the day, Cue Card was beaten fair and square but I think we can have him a bit better. I came away from Cheltenham saying he wouldn't run again before the Festival but I rode him myself on December 18 and he was so well that it seems a long time to wait to run him again. It hasn't been discussed with his owner, Bob Bishop, but it's in my mind to give him another run towards the end of January before whichever race he goes for at Cheltenham. It's an option. It's 50-50 where he goes at Cheltenham, but we are looking forward to having him over fences. I don't think there are any ground concerns so long as it's safe." Stable tour from 21/12/10 Interesting comments on the horses preparation before the Bula. |