|
By:
my friend put a pound on every number except 27..... and gues what number come up??? 27!
|
|
By:
Serves him right for forgetting to put something on 27.
|
|
By:
Roulette is a funny game, here is my story,
I started gambling when I turned 18, mainly snooker and a bit of footbal, went 200 up and thought it was amazing lost it. Then I started roulette online, bookies and sometimes in a casino. To keep it short over about a year and a half i won 4000 on roulette and lost 1000 on sports. I then gave up for 2008, cracked a couple of weeks ago and lost 2800 in two days (so i was the 200 up). Snooker started and I discovered betfair :). Just broke even cos Ronnie won but had big wins on Carter and Perry but they didn't make the last step. Anyway this zero roulette really drew me in and so far I am +2500, so +2700 since the beginning. I have quite a strict system but as I have shown with my 2800 loss it is more short term luck more than anything. I'm now taking my betting slower to make it hard to ever lose it all again. btw I'm a student and really shouldn't mess around with sums of money like this but now that I'm up it really does come in handy. Also I worked in a place for 2 weeks and there was a willhill over the road. Went in there everyday and lost one out of the 10 days, the girtls behind the counter couldn't believe it. I won a grand from that shop and they said the machines had made them a loss that week. To conclude: Any well known site or bookies will not**their machines, with the amount of money passing through the house edge makes them plenty. You may put 20 in but you can often wager 10 or more times this. Also the machine can always take the bet, but when you go down to zero, you have to walk away. My advice, take it easy and enjoy it, never spend what you can't afford, and if you win it will almost definitely be short term so protect as best you can - I'm lucky and got a second chance. |
|
By:
All very well saying they are not fixed - what is frustrating is the fact that they seem to "streak" - so good for you that nine times out of ten you have happened to win on WH fobts.
Howerver, there are times, that no matter what "strategy" (as if there is such a thing) you play, the machine just keeps finding the losing numbers time and time again. They also seem to have this "inner" brain which detects when you are winning, or approaching a "milestone" (eg: 100, 200) that you might be waiting to collect at, and then throwing in a loser then. I was playing one today - fairly small stakes. Put 30 in, and from spin one, it was downhill all the way - lost 8 on first spin, 6 on 2nd spin - etc etc - anyway - when I got down to my last 8, it decided to throw in some winning numbers (obviously playing small stakes meant I was now winning small amts) - but gradually I got my 30 back, until a "particularly" good spin got me to the heady heights of 35 - pressed repeat, and machine managed to find one of only 5 losing numbers on the wheel (I understand that there is always the likelyhood of it happening - but it only happened once I'd got back to 30 (and a bit more) - ok I could have collected at 35 (but who goes in to a bookies , spends 15 mins of their life on these machines only to walk out with a fiver profit!!?!?) - I could have changed my bet - changed my numbers, lowered my stake, I have a feeling what would have happened. what I am trying to say is that rather than "number 1" (which was the losing number) coming in next - what was really programmed to come in next was "a losing number" - it didn't matter what bet I put on!!!! I might be paranoid - then again - I might not be. Obviously the best method would be to "not play them" (find myself a real casino - or just not play at all) - but all these options do not make things ok. Then again - are bookies really on this planet to be nice to us. Rather than "competition" - they are just a cosy little cartel - rant over. Good luck to anyone who has the short term good luck, and the discipline to collect before that luck turns against them - |
|
By:
Fixed or not, you still lose.
If they are not fixed, you lose at the expected rate of 2.7% of turnover. If they are fixed, you save time by losing faster. HENMAANNNN - Your mate who bet on all but 27 is a true mug. 36 quid bet, with 2 possible outcomes: 1. 27 comes up - lose 36 quid. 2. Any other number comes up - lose 35 quid and win 35 quid = break even. So there is no way to win this one at all. It is only one step away from putting 1 quid on every number - that guarantees a loss of 1 quid every spin no matter what - so good advice from Jman there! |
|
By:
Nice to find an area we can agree on. ;)
Covering almost all of the table ...the 'minefield method'... is strictly for fools and russian roulette enthusiasts. |
|
By:
I agree covering alot of numbers is not the way forward I would suggest pick a number and place your complete stake on it (Expample your 10 pounds you are willing to lose) if number comes up you are 350 pounds better of it you lose walk away do not put any more money in.
|
|
By:
leg123 -
Your system loses 27p on average for every 10 quid bet. Jman - We do not agree sorry. How can you not yet see that EVERY variant of roulette play loses 2.7% of turnover? Your pig-headedness truly staggers me. |
|
By:
brilliant thread. thank you to all participants...
i almost have tears streaming down my face... |
|
By:
I have a bet with a friend, his 100 to my 1000 that I won't bet on any fixed odds until July (Vegas). Poker obviously not included.
As soon as I walk past the bookies, or go to a casino to meet someone, I think straight away that if I play I will be starting off 1000 down. Best deterrant ever ;) |
|
By:
heads or tails poo :)
|
|
By:
fixed or not ,because they are addictive people will still play them just like fruit machines.we know they are a rip off but still try to beat them
|
|
By:
There is no doubt in my mind that they are not "straight" -
but I still play them. As to a) how to prove they are not straight. b) who to complain to. goes, I have no idea. Ok, ready to be shot down in flames - the other night (about 7pm) - walked in betting shop - no customers - I put 20 in fob, and randomly scatted *****over the board - as it was I cover all the numbers from 4 to 33, and had a stake of 10.60. Pressed start - and zero comes in. Put in some more money, pressed repeat, and 36 comes in. repeat again, and 18 comes in, a profit of about 2. repeat again. 36 repeat again (after another top up) 35 and then again, and 3 comes in. Ok - it's a small sample. But 5 losing numbers out of 6 spins (when covering about 85% of the board) seems a little extreme for me. Now I could understand if this was a one off - but from my experience and that of others on here and "elsewhere" - it is not a one off is it? But once again - what can we do? Other than DO NOT PLAY THEM!!!! A lot easier said than done. |
|
By:
you sound like an idiot
such a large lay out for small return if number comes in next time just walk in and hand your money over at the counter ... save the brain energy thinking what numbers to ''play'' |
|
By:
u are all idots
|
|
By:
Its a complete no brainer for me....
Roullette will break you even if its not rigged if you play regular & on the flip side if they (FOBTs) are rigged why play the fkin misery spreading things in the first place.....we have all seen the guys who thought hard about putting a fiver on a horse or a dog playing upwards of 50 a spin its fkin madness.....is it a coincedence that so many bookies are getting blagged now?? |
|
By:
I done my absolute conkers in one earlier today. Had 280 in my pocket, going shopping, popped in to the Joe Koral on the way..
I had 1 on 7 numbers (0, 5, 10, 15, 25, 30, 35) and 2 on one number (20) - none of these numbers were visible on the last ten spins so I thought with the law of averages and what have you that it could be my day. No - it must have been eleven spins later and I am 100 down and I am not leaving that shop till I get one winner or I do my wedge completely. The number 25 came in a spin or so later and then nothing for another four spins of the wheel. Getting nervous I take a step back and replace all of my numbers with smaller values - I have 60p on my 2 number (20) and 40p on the rest so my spin is now reduced by almost a third to 3.40 a go and this is the sequence afterwards : 20 10 20 7 20 11 5 5 19 33 17 13 8 20 To the best of my knowlegde all the above is correct, definitely my winning numbers. What the f*ck is this? I mean seriously, surely these things are rigged - my 2 number spins in four times our of the next fourteen. I want to take this further but know I will be proved wrong and told I am a bad loser but honestly - would this series of numbers came in had I not changed my stakes? We all know the answer to that question. |
|
By:
Further reading on the Law of averages required
|
|
By:
Why do people play them? (me included)
I guess the answer to that is partly a) addiction (this also applies to people on here who bet on horses and other sports - there will always be an element of people who are addicted to a certain extent) b) because of the nature of FOBTS (ie: the speed of the spin, the speed of the result) they are even more susceptible to addicts. In the end it shouldn't come down to "why does a player play them" - the arguements on here and elsewhere have always been that they are advertised as "roulette machines" obstensibly paying exactly the same returns as any roulette table in UK (other than the en prison rule for zero) - but all evidence points to the fact that one loses money a lot faster on these than you ever would on a real roulette table. |
|
By:
So these machines are 'random' eh?
The last time i played one was about 3 months ago, i had every number covered except 33 and 34 (silly bet i know) but i was hoping that one of my main numbers came in and if not i would at least get a decent return on my lesser numbers. Playing to the maximum 100 per spin number 33 came out THREE times in a row, then it put 26 in (which was right next to my biggest number '0' on which i had 13. The next number was 34 then 26 then 33 again. Needless to say i smacked the machine as hard as i could, setting the alarms off and thus getting barred from the shop. What**ed me off most was when i was pressing start the wheel wouldn't spin straight away, there was a message saying 'PLEASE WAIT FOR NEXT DRAW' and a big pause of about 4/5 seconds before the machine just spun a losing number in. I rang Global Draw(the machine operator) and sent numerous E-Mails to which they never replied, i got to speak to someone on the help-desk who said 'we can't talk to betting shop customers and only deal with betting shops directly' After speaking to C oral customer services i was told that the machines are definitely random and that this was just a freak run of results (my arse, these sort of results happen far too often to be even classed as freak). I was also told that the reason the wheel doesn't spin straight away is that legally there has to be a '12 second' gap between each draw. If thats the case why isn't there ONE number sent to EVERY machine every 12 seconds? She couldn't answer. I also went on to ask her if C oral were willing to take bets on the outcome of these 'random draws' BEFORE the wheel is spun.i.e Would they be willing to let me cover every number bar ZERO and before i pressed start, place a bet over the counter that ZERO would come in at odds of 35/1. They would not take my bet surprise surprise. I totally agree with everything the first poster has said and i think its only a matter of time before there is a big crackdown on these Robot Robbers!! |
|
By:
Just to add, on the Global Draw machines in Jo Korel if you press the help menu it clearly states 'THIS MACHINE WILL PAY OUT 91% USING BEST STRATEGY'
What the hell does this mean? What is best strategy? and how can a percentage of 91 be put on something that is 'totally random' and especially when the known average percentage of a genuine wheel is 97%?? |
|
By:
i have a pal who works in the will hill headquarters and he told me that more than 7/10ths of profit will hill made was via tthose machines. so bokies arnt like the ones of old, going into a bookies you used to have a chance of picking a horse/dog etc and its down to you wat you pick where now with these machines specially that they are rigged the punter is not getting a chance becoz no matter what they pick the machine is going to mug them off. least horse or dog you have some choice in wether you lose or not.
|
|
By:
Its no coincidence that since these machines were introduced, bookmakers open at 8.30am and shut at 10pm regardless of what racing is on.
I think they need to be more transparent on how the results are generated and explain how 'freak' runs of numbers occur time and again! 'Some people win on them' so they never will! |
|
By:
The results are generated by random number generators, what further explanation is required?
You lose because of the PAYOUT ODDS. |
|
By:
Fruit machines are controlled by RNGs. Some of the games on these machines are fruit machines. Are we saying then these fruit machine games which are controlled by RNGs are not random yet the roulette which is also controlled by a RNG is random?
|
|
By:
Then why does the Random number generator not just send a number to each machine in the country every 15-20 seconds, so that everybody receives the same number at the same time?
|
|
By:
only played them once put 10 in got 57 out,but know
lots of people who lose iooo's. they are modern day fruit machines designed to take your money. |
|
By:
The lack of knowledge regarding these machines from so called experts astounds me. According to Badcrooks customer services, 10 numbers are sent to each machine every second and the machine picks a number, if you dont believe this put a pound in machines that are next to each other, put it on twenty on both and press the buttons at the same time, different numbers will come up.
Badcrooks customer services claim that the roulette is entirely random. However they have yet to answer my question regarding the randomness of the fruit machine elememt. The notice on all their machines states that the machines are random. I have asked them if the fruit machine element is random. It clearly isnt as it pays to a percentage, hence the notice on these machines is wrong, not all if any of the games are random. Im awaiting their answer |
|
By:
surely there must be a regulator that acts on behalf of the customer - if you were going to your local petrol station and only getting 900ml for every litre of petrol you paid for, then weights and measures could help you - who can we contact to "roadtest" these machines - surely it could be like an audit - actually come to think of it - most of these operators claim their RNG is audited by independent auditors - how can we get to see the results of these audits - do the auditors play with real money to test these RNGs -
it all seems a bit of a waste of time to test them in "test mode" - or merely to run a string of winning numbers to test their randomness - it has surely to be tested in the same environment that a customer uses the product. It's like an auditor testing Tesco based on the price they'd like to sell their bread for rather than what customers actually pay - so Tesco say: right, we're gonna bake 1 million loaves, and sell them at 1 each. We know it costs us 70p in all costs to make a loaf, therefore Tesco tell the auditor, right we make 30p per loaf, we sell a million, so our profit is 300k (just take our word for it Mr Auditor - no need to look at actual figures - ie: short-dated stock sold off at reduced prices, Tesco forced to lower their prices cos Asda started selling their loaf at 85p, etc etc) So how can we see the results of these audits? Of course, as mentioned before, the easiest way to get rid of the machines would be not to play them - however, it is also my belief that the more people who do not play the machines, the even worse it is for those who do play them - as the machines will still be programmed to win their 30k a week (or whatever) - and if only 50% of the people are playing, then they will be even more likely to lose, and lose quickly - these "freak" results will happen even more frequently - and the bookies and operators can just hide behind the "it's random" answer, there will be good runs (for matey who plays 2 a spin, and is allowed a mega win when he collects his 30), and bad runs (anyone who thinks they can play much more than 40 a spin and expect to win!!!) - as all the "maths" experts on here say, you cannot prove anything is random or not based on a small sample (ie: anything less than about 50,000 spins!!!) - but I'm sure a lot of people on here will testify that the bad runs hit them far more often than good runs - sure I understand that the house advantage will beat you in the end - and sure I have played them and had runs where I have made a relatively small amount of money last an age, and ended up losing because I didn't know when to stop - I got greedy (wanting more "easy" money) - or I just wanted to get back to that level I was at 10 spins ago (how often does it never get back) - but then there have been other times, similar to previous poster, where, in a short space of time, loser after loser comes up - this happens particularly at "quiet times in the shop" - ie: evenings - with a "random" machine, why should it matter that I am the only muppet in the country playing the machines at 9pm at night?? But sure as night follows day, it tends to wipe you out in double quick time!!! Who are the regulators?? |
|
By:
The fact that you can't get a straight answer from anybody involved with the firms that operate them tells its own story.
From cashier to manager and into the customer service department they all have a different theory on how they work. Surely there should be some sort of operating manual that tells customers exactly how they work, or do they have something to hide? Type 'Global Draw' into ggogle and give their site a visit, it gets even more complicated on there!! |
|
By:
So many stupid posts.
No one can explain WHY anyone operating these machines would prefer to have them fixed. Non fixed machines are going to empty the pockets of those sad enough to play them. Fixed machines can do no better than that. |
|
By:
Why are these posts stupid?
The sign on the machine says it is random, yet the fruit machine element pays out at 94%, it is clearly not random. Therefore Badcrooks are advertsing their machine fraudulently. I have played roulette for 20 years and played roulette on these machines for the past 4. I play them exactly like a fruit machine, wait for someone to put a lot of money in and then follow them on. The pattern of wins and loses is not like casino roulette. I cover ten numbers, basically playing a 5/2 shot. In the past I have had losing spins of over 50 on the trot many times when covering 10 numbers. I have also had winning runs of 20 spins. I find I have much more chance of winning when someone has just lost a bundle, and will not play a machine unless it has taken a bundle or the chances of an extended losing streak are increased. As mentioned in an earlier post I am still awaiting Badcrooks response to my question regarding the "random"` statement as I am convinced it is fraudulent advertising. In regards to their staff not having a clue how they work, one response to my question regarding the fruit macine randomness was that for 94 out if the 100 spins it will pay 50p, therefore it is random!!! |
|
By:
My post wasn't aimed at fruit machines.
But if you placed 1m through your 94% fruit machine blind folded------you're return would be 940,000 +/- 15K. More or less exactly the same return as if you were an ''expert player'' without blindfold. |
|
By:
currystar,
It's an interesting concept, the 94% sticker, when it should in theory be 97.3. I've never played them so I can't speak from experience, however isn't that sticker just an average of what the machine pays out? What I'm trying to say is that it isn't necessarily an indicator the machine is not random, just that some people will use poor money management and lose more than what they should |
|
By:
i CAN TELL YOU TO MY COST THAT THEY ARE ALL FIXED!!! I HAVE SPENT THOUSANDS ON THE MACHINES IN BOOKIES, YOU GET AFEW WINS TO KEEP YOU INTERESTED, BUT THE FOOL THAT I AM HAVE LOST AND LOST AND LOST AND THEOUGHT EACH TIME, HTIS WILL BE MY LUCKY DAY, LIKE ....... IT WILL BE!!!
|
|
By:
94% is for fruit machines!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
|
|
By:
JML
On Badcrooks CashQuest machine on which the roulette is, some of the other games on there are fruit machines. When playing the fruit machine element there is a computer generated remark stating the machine pays out at 94%, yet on the top of the machine there is a plaque from Badcrooks stating that this machine is random. If it pays out to 94% how can it be random? |
|
By:
Although I've never studied one of these machines I'd guess what they say is MINIMUM 94%
|
|
By:
Exactly, therefore if it is paying out to a minimum 94% it cannot be random, hence it is false and misleading advertising by stating that the machine is random
|
|
By:
The roulette part of the machine is random----every number,at any given time, has a 1 in 37
chance of being selected next. |