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Hello,it's me again.
Nobody else watching the athletics? Having a machine paying 97.3% is much better than fixing it to pay 50%. You can fleece a sheep many times, but you can skin it only once. |
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After my business went under had the misfortune to work for Joe Ocoral.
This was wher i met my 1st machine manager. A person whose sole role was to maximise income from an estate of appprox 300 units. My man was an ex supermarket supervisor and was a T urd personified but he was drawing a decent living of c £40k Holdingpoxy tournaments every 8 weeks or so to entice new and existing punters on to the Cash Cows. They may well be random but none of the units in his patch lost over a 12 month period. |
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lol at the people moaning on here and then probably playing them themselves. it's quite simple, if you don't like them, don't play them. nobody forces you to play them and you can still bet on all the things in the bookies you could do before they were introduced. hope this helps
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Has anyone tried to chase black or red.Lets say it is red-you put money on red until it changes to black.You then put money on the black until it changes to red.There can be red or black 5-10-15 times in a row.Rarely it will be black-red-black-red.
But more likely for example red-black-black-black-red-red What do you think? |
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"Why would anyone want these machines to be fixed"......err why on earth would ITV, BBC and a number of other high profile public/privately owned organisations**their phone-ins so that people were being charged even though they had NO CHANCE of entering the competition???
The history of big business is littered with organisations that "bend" the rules in order to swindle the public out of their hard earned, and bookmakers when it comes to FOBTs in my opinion are no different. How on earth can it be random if the machine KNOWS in advance the numbers chosen and also the amount staked?? Surely this information must be irrelevant shouldnt it if the machine was entirely random?? Why not use similar terminals to the one's used at some casinos with a time delay for placing bets?? One last point. Has anyone on this forum EVER tried to get an auditable record(s) from the "random number" generators?? Im currently in the process of trying to obtain one from William Hill for their FOBTs in the North West and I tell you, for an organisation that should by more than happy to be transparent, they arent half obstructive. It stinks to high heaven. |
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The rule changes, soon after these things were introduced, were (obviously suggested by the big bookies themselves) supposed to make these things fairer. As I recall they included:
Max stake £100 per spin/bet Max payout £500 per spin/bet No quicker than 1 spin/bet every 15 secs How does that help punters? Max bet £20 with mo max payout would be fairer. No facility to repeat bet - you can't on a real roulette table No max payout only 1 spin a minute. Much fairer, but not a chance. Incidentally, some years ago, I met a developer of these machines at the (then Betting shop) betting show. He worked for a company whose machines are still used by a VERY big bookmakers, and took some time to explain to me how the %age can be changed by the addition of random numbers which cannot be backed. This was mentioned early in this thread. It's true. The Gambling Commission have neither the intelligence nor the desire to do anything about these machines, its far easier for them to operate a policy of bullying small bookies and create red tape. |
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All said and done, I think these machines create more addictiive/illness issues than most other forms of gambling.
Although I also believe that they won't cause much more damage than on line casinos do, it's just that on line things are much more anonymous. I do find it worrying and quite sad, that some people are totally convinced they are rigged or fixed, yet still pump every penny they own in them, that I must admit I find very strange. |
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it's because they're addictive.
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After 18 months of doing my nuts on them evil things i have finally broken the spell..
my advice to all those out there who have suffered like me is to go in EVERY shop near enough to visit and take out a self exclusion ban.I started 3 months ago and found at first i was driving miles to find a new shop then one by one i banned myself from the lot and now finally after months of misery i feel i have beaten it. it has become a great relief to actually plan my finances without it depending on how much i**ed up the wall...them roulette machines are the most evil things the gambling world has created,i honestly dont know if they are fixed but my gut feeling is that they are not 100% random,but nothing would give me more pleasure than seeing other people manageing to beat them ** things. GOOD LUCK !!! |
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Well done, sir. If you are ever tempted to play them again, feel free to post on here and we'll remind you of how you now feel.
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I have to admit my gut tells me they are not random, I just back red or black and if you are losing and chasing to get your money back huge long strings of watever colour you are not on appear.
Strings of 9 are commonplace and betting guru's will tell you that because you are chasing you have opened yourself up to the possibility of this and if you had won on the first few spins you would collecting far earlier. However if you double up on your first few spins and back the stake right down and still stick with the same colour you never seem to get the same huge string of winning numbers. Just my observations. |
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I agree that you do seem to get these long runs but i surpose the amount of spins you get per hour compared to casinos these runs will apear more often.
its the same with online poker, everybody moans about their bad beats but when you play 70+ hands per hour they are bound to be more noticeable. |
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I've posted many posts on this thread - and I have read everyone else's threads - even those that disagree with me. I do take on board the "number of spins per hour" compared to a casino and hence more noticeable trends etc. However, I have not changed my opinion that I beleive them to be fixed in some way or other - the sheer abundance of "unbelievable" results is my "proof".
Ok - onto the spins per hour - for the sake of the "addicted element" are the gambling commision not supposed to be doing something to reduce spins per hour?? - reduce the addictive nature of these machines - such as removing the "repeat bet" feature?? do the gambling commision do anything or do they just sit back and count the money from the "tax" on bookie's profits? Just another little thing - I was in Billy Hills yesterday - as usual - my £30 into roulette produced that losing run within the first 10 spins and I was "outta there" - however I was in there long enough to see a bloke who I'd seen in there before playing roulette - he seemed to have bored himself of that and was now playing the "fruit machine" game on the FOBS - and hey presto - within 3 mins of me being in there - he had struck "lucky" and got £500 jackpot - he collected - had a little chat with the bookie - and then another FOB became free - he even had the decency to ask the bloke who had been playing roulette on it if he had finished with the machine - then he stuck £20 in - played the fruity again - first spin - £500 jackpot - he then made some remark about the fact he used to play roulette but felt the machine screwed him too much - but the "interesting" part of the story was the bookie saying "I'm glad you won mate, cos now I don't have to phone my district manager" - he then went on to say that "when the machines win over a certain amount on a day, he needs to call the district manager" - wonder what that's all abou then??? |
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I have always felt FOBTS are just fruit machines. People have to lose on them before they pay out. All you players just think how often you lose on your first spin compared to how often you win.
Yet more anecdotal evidence: Watched a chap yesterday, he put £10 in the machine and covered seventeen different numbers to various demominations, first bet lost, the next 9 repeat bets lost. He left the shop and went to the cashpoint, put in another £100 for 10 repeat bets, all lost. He left the shop swearing under his breath. Thats 20 bets covering 17 numbers, not one hit. I know anything can happen in roulette, but in reality, that, and the numerous other mad sequences I have seen over the years shouldn't really happen. This thread now has been going for some time and has had many replies, yet still I have not seen a single one from someone who has had a good run on a FOBT and won a few grand. In Casinos this happens a lot, people do have good runs and win a lot of money. With all the anecdotal evidence of ridiculous losing runs their should be anecdotal evidence of ridiculous winning runs. I know that their are people reading this thread who have had these losing runs, why has no one told us about their winning run?The chances of a winning run are only slightly less than the chances of a losing run on a truly random game. I have written to Badcrookes regarding FOBTS many times in various guises to see if their answers are consistent. The latest I have from them is that 10 random numbers are generated every second and the machine randomly picks one of them. ( you may notice if you play their machines and hit the button on two machines at the same time that you do not get the same result). They also claim that in numerous shops the machines lose money on a weekly basis. We all know how much money is pumped into these machines and how they have destroyed peoples lives, if some are losing regularly then their must be some big winners out there! They just dont post on here and none of the contributers have seen them win. (By big Im talking £5000+) |
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easy way to win on these machine guys
............. put £500 in, select red or black .... press bet ...... we all know the number before it lands and if the right colour, watch and win ...... if not switch machine off and go and complain to counter!! manager will refund money ..... £500 up or move 2 next shop. |
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I won close on 10k playing leading up to xmas last year thaught about becoming a pro roulette player,guess what ? done the lot plus 5k more by end of jan hence my previous thread about self exclusion,
Worrying thing about this was around the start of the year i was told by several of the laddies shop managers (who i got to know well ) that that changes had been made to the fobts decreasing the terminals payouts !!! Now for a random machine this is not possible but it did seem to coincide not only with my nightmare run but also with (according to the managers ) much larger shop profits.. make of it as you will Mr (not so Stupid now ) |
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they are deffo like fruit machines.....listen to this for a close call..
my mate who plays on these quite alot ..he had £150 in his pocket went in to sadjokes and lost the lost in 10 mins, he came to me and i gave him £150 and he sent it back to me from his paypal account, he went back and lost this in the same machine in about 20 mins. he then went to another friend and borrowed £100 and 10 mins later the same result ,he went back to the same lad and gave him his paperwork for his car in return for another £300 and said to him "if i dont pay u back in 2 weeks the car is yours" so he got the £300 and went back on a major chase to get his money back and u guessed it he lost the lot. he had then used up all his funds so his mind started ticking over and he had a silly idea he remebered his 15 year old daughter had a chunky gold bracelet in her room so like an idiot he takes this to the local pawn shop and pawned it in for £280 , went back to the same machine and did the lot in ..things were now getting silly if his missis found out about all this he would have been out like a shot. his last resort was he had a rolex watch that someone had asked him to sell on ebay for them and he took this back to the pawn shop and got £400 for it , after about £100 of it going in the machine it started to hit his big numbers and within 45 mins he had £1500 in the bank .. he withdrew it , went and paid back all his debts and ended up with a few hundred quid in his pocket...THE LUCKY FOOKER.. :) this is a true story and he got very lucky to get it back ...so try and stay off them its so easy to get involved in it.. |
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I was in a joe korals yesterday a guy was playing roulette he was playing £80 a spin he hit zero to £13 he then had £585 in the kitty he turned to me and said"i should take this now having put £200 in.......needless to say i watched his last 4 spins where he was only leaving 4 numbers uncovered £100 a spin it cleaned him.he seemed to be able to predict what was going to happen yet still carried on.....they are clearly pure evil.
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Once upon a time i wondered whether the roulette machines were fixed but a simple test can be done to prove otherwise...if you spin the wheel at the same time as someone on the machine next to you, (or indeed play 2 machines yourself at the same time) then the number will be the same time in time out..
Therefor there can be no arguement that the machines are fixed.. People just need to wake up and smell the coffee, its called gambling for a reason.. |
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Marco, as Currystar said the same number if you press the button at the same time no longer applies to Badcrookes machines, i dont know what this proves but it is a fact
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wow ive just been reading this whole thread from the beginning.
I have played these FOBT's rarely, as it is blatently obvious that these machines are indeed fixed. There are 2 very interesting posts that people seem to have just breezed over on here, which i believe give us the answer to how these machines work. If it is true that 10 numbers are sent to the machines every 10 seconds...you have to ask yourself, why 10 numbers? why not 1 randomly generated number? The reason is that 10 numbers gives the machine a chance to work out what the best random numbers are to come up with from the 10. This also explains reasoning about the same number coming up on 2 machines when the button is pressed simultaniously - it doesnt happen all the time does it...but if it suits both machines to display the same number from the 10 then why not. this theory is backed up by an early post 'studyform' i think who said he was talking to someone who developed these machines. |
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from studyforms post..
Incidentally, some years ago, I met a developer of these machines at the (then Betting shop) betting show. He worked for a company whose machines are still used by a VERY big bookmakers, and took some time to explain to me how the %age can be changed by the addition of random numbers which cannot be backed. This was mentioned early in this thread. It's true. |
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so we all know these machines are networked together to work as one body.....
users put their bets on around the country joe in leeds bets on 1 2 3 4 matt in sunderland bets on 5 6 7 8 sue in london bets on 9 10 11 12 big frank the millionaire bets £5 on each middle numbers 13 -24 betty from bristol bets small on 25 26 27 28 29 roman abramovich is on 30 - 36 with a wad main server sends out random numbers to FOBT's randm numbers are 3 5 10 13 18 22 26 30 33 36 joe matt and sue get number 36 frank and roman get number 10 betty wins her small bet on number 25 |
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same thing goes on with the virtual racing IMO
BETS PLACED V PRICE V WEIGHT OF MONEY easy algorithm for a pc to work out |
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Break him aka - that is possibly the silliest explanation I have ever heard.
So what if Sue and Roman put their differing stakes on the same number? Does she lose cause the machine can't let him win? And at any one moment given the amount of machines spread across the country isn't it possible that there would be a downside to this system for the bookmaker. C'mon!!! |
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there is always 1 or 2 people that will try to defend
something that is undefendable the truth is their is a fruit machine factor built into these machines i am 100% certain of that - and i dont think im so far of the mark given the info weve had on this thread. If sue and roman both do say number 7 and 7 is one of the random numbers - then the individual machines then have the capability of choosing one from the other randoom numbers...its simple so if hundreds of people are playing these machines across the country and all numbers are covered - that doesnt make a difference. the factor is the random numbers - which effect individual machines so chances are if bob in london was playing all numbers from 1-30 and the random numbers were 1 4 7 11 16 20 22 33 0 35 the FOBT can choose 33 or 35 to display on the screen. |
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as fruit machines can be set to a certain payout percentage
so are these i believe....so if the machine has took a load of money and its payout percentage has dropped to 70% it will prob let you win a bit untill the win percentage goes back up to 91% or whatever, and vice versa. |
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the company mentioned earlier that developed these machines
barrcrest...is probably the number 1 name in fruit machines... it doesnt take a genius to work out the rest.... |
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What you seem to be saying is Tetley make tea so they can't make coffee?
I hate the things, totally despise em, and fight a constant battle to resist them, but I believe they aren't fixed. Some lads from work went in laddies today and 4 of em put a fiver in each and spread it in £1 bets. Had 2 spins for their £20 and lost. Chucked in again, won a couple of times, and then doubled their bet. 10 mins later they £800 and walked. One other guy from work who was doing the horses told em they shouldn't quit on a winning spin which they did. He chucked in £20 and repeated the bet and 5 mins later walked with £300. Some fruit machine that!! But you still miss the point. The staking plans that people have are crazy. They cover so many numbers, and quite often half of the numbers they have will return a loss even if they do come in. Who needs 97% when people play like that? |
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its the fact that you can win a few hundred quid that draws people in -
why have you chose to ignore the points made about the random numbers? Why do you think 10 numbers are sent to the machines instead of 1?? for gods sake man, it is 100% fixed...it frustrates me that you and so many others are in denial of what you see with your eyes...there are hundreds of examples on here of just how fixed these are, you have been told by people on here how they work ...if you cant shake this habit...and this goes for anyone who plays them...you are sick....its an illness that gets ignored by the majority but you really need help. There is no finer example of daylight robbery than these machines you have been told on here the revenue the bookies are making from them - there is overwhelming evidence that they are not fair game. |
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You would have thaught if they were fixed that someone ie: engineers or someone with a grudge would have spilled the beans by now, the fact is that when you win they are random and when you lose they are fixed, the same with jockeys, when you lose they are** and when your dog losses its been stuffed.
its human nature to blame other things for our stupidity. |
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This topic has gone on for far too long. I can't believe people still think these are fixed in the sense that they somehow choose when to let you win or not. LOL
Break Him Aka "The reason is that 10 numbers gives the machine a chance to work out what the best random numbers are to come up with from the 10." Where's your evidence of this? Do you really think if this was happening that the gaming commission wouldn't have banned them by now? My thoughts on why some machines get sent 10 numbers at a time is to keep the game going. For example, if a hundred people all press the spin button at the same time, the RNG is going to have to communicate to them all what that number is which could cause delays, and therefore loss of profits to the machine owners. The ten numbers will have to be selected in sequence, not picked and chosen from by some elaborate fixed software as is being claimed. Online casino's do this too. I'm aware of one such casino that actually lets you examine the sequence of numbers to confirm the game is fair. But anyhow, this is getting silly. Mr Stupid has hit the nail on the head, people who lose will cry**and people who win won't cry at all, unless of course they pump their winnings back into the machine and then lose it all. People need to remember that EVERYONE will lose given enough time playing, so in this sense, yes they are fixed. Fixed to make the machine owner money, fixed because you are not getting value odds. Simple fact is, just play them for entertainment, if you win a few quid, excellent. if you lose a few quid, no biggie as you've passed a bit of time while waiting for your race. Sadly, some folk seem to think they can beat the odds and win consistently so they pump more and more money in and chase losses. That train of thought never made sense to me. YOU ARE EXPECTED TO LOSE so quit whining when you do ffs. |
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I can't be bothered to read the whole thread but this dododao dude seems to be a complete half wit? Why is constantly playing these machines when he "knows" that he can't win?
Unbelievable. |
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Problem is mayway they are addictive and while i dont agree with the nanny state protecting us from everything i do believe that too many peoples lives are being affected by these and more restrictions should be put on them IE: limit the hours shops are allowed to have them turned on.
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missuses mate married to a guy whos best mate has gone from being skint to travelling up and down the country in a brand new audi rs4 or something playing fobts. Obviously Im trying to find out more details but up to now I know he picks an area then goes in the shops a loses a bit over time then wins the next day or so. Always less than 1k per shop. He only uses certain bookies and I know he uses independant shops. Not sure about the major bookies as well. He always wears a suit so I think hes trying to make out hes in the area on some sort of business. Probem is hes keeping it very hush hush as you would.
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tip 1: pick a shop with large turnover on FOBT - £6k/day plus
tip 2: place large stakes on single numbers - £5plus tip 3: when yu get up - and you will - leave! |
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Was in my local To te shop on Arc day and the sound of notes being fed continuously into a fobt, like paper into a shredder, caught my attention. The player had a brick sized stack of notes sat on the console; was playing £25 a spin - £12 on 0, £12 on 2, £1 on the split. feed spin feed spin. Didn't hit the numbers in 30 spins. Changed the bet to 34,35,36. Feed spin feed spin.
Half an hour later, i was in the shop again for the main race and the same player was at the same machine. He had £1600 in the bank and had switched his bet to 14,17,20. but there was no stack of notes. The monotony must have been getting to him because he got a pal to perform the spin button pressing whilst he relaxed on the fruit machine option on the next fobt. Spin repeat spin repeat spin. After another 20-30 spins i think the substitute player then hit two of the numbers within 5 spins. Glad it appeared to be working out for them but i don't think it's a tactic/strategy(?) i could ever consider, but you never know. After collecting on Zarkava, i left them to it. |
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Was in my local Toat shop on Arc day and the sound of notes being fed continuously into a fobt, like paper into a shredder, caught my attention. The player had a brick sized stack of notes sat on the console; was playing £25 a spin - £12 on 0, £12 on 2, £1 on the split. feed spin feed spin. Didn't hit the numbers in 30 spins. Changed the bet to 34,35,36. Feed spin feed spin.
Half an hour later, i was in the shop again for the main race and the same player was at the same machine. He had £1600 in the bank and had switched his bet to 14,17,20. but there was no stack of notes. The monotony must have been getting to him because he got a pal to perform the spin button pressing whilst he relaxed on the fruit machine option on the next fobt. Spin repeat spin repeat spin. After another 20-30 spins i think the substitute player then hit two of the numbers within 5 spins. Glad it appeared to be working out for them but i don't think it's a tactic/strategy(?) i could ever consider, but you never know. After collecting on Zarkava, i left them to it. |
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Was in my local toat shop on Arc day and the sound of notes being fed continuously into a fobt, like paper into a shredder, caught my attention. The player had a brick sized stack of notes sat on the console; was playing £25 a spin - £12 on 0, £12 on 2, £1 on the split. feed spin feed spin. Didn't hit the numbers in 30 spins. Changed the bet to 34,35,36. Feed spin feed spin.
Half an hour later, i was in the shop again for the main race and the same player was at the same machine. He had £1600 in the bank and had switched his bet to 14,17,20. but there was no stack of notes. The monotony must have been getting to him because he got a pal to perform the spin button pressing whilst he relaxed on the fruit machine option on the next fobt. Spin repeat spin repeat spin. After another 20-30 spins i think the substitute player then hit two of the numbers within 5 spins. Glad it appeared to be working out for them but i don't think it's a tactic/strategy(?) i could ever consider, but you never know. After collecting on Zarkava, i left them to it. |
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ah, the old invalid data gag. Thanks betfair. Good job i remembered i've fallen for that before or there'd be even more of the same post with the odd tweak to see if it would go through.
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