|
By:
Messenger " And as he slept,so was the poison so pernicious
poured into Mr SnS's shell like.That that fine and noble steed Firebreak !!! Should never join his mare in happy union. " King Lear Act 2 Scene 3. I have never understood that passage, until now.It looks like your husband has been got at - by some strange phantom of the night.Maybe Bearstone,could provide him with some counselling - rehab,role playing, I don't know,I'm just trying to help. Good luck with your bet - I shall probably also partake,but a bit nearer raceday.The turf season seems to be taking ages to come around (although I say that every year). |
|
By:
Dominion,is your finger stuck on your PC button!
|
|
By:
Messenger " And as he slept,so was the poison so pernicious
poured into Mr SnS's shell like.That that fine and noble steed Firebreak !!! Should never join his mare in happy union. " King Pear Act 2 Scene 3. I have never understood that passage, until now.It looks like your husband has been got at - by some strange phantom of the night.Maybe Bearstone,could provide him with some counselling - rehab,role playing, I don't know,I'm just trying to help. Good luck with your bet - I shall probably also partake,but a bit nearer raceday.The turf season seems to be taking ages to come around (although I say that every year). |
|
By:
Messenger " And as he slept,so was the poison so pernicious
poured into Mr SnS's shell like.That that fine and noble steed Firebreak !!! Should never join his mare in happy union. " King Lear Act 2 Scene 3. I have never understood that passage, until now.It looks like your husband has been got at - by some strange phantom of the night.Maybe Bearstone,could provide him with some counselling - rehab,role playing,tea and biscuits, I don't know,I'm just trying to help. Good luck with your bet - I shall probably also partake,but a bit nearer raceday.The turf season seems to be taking ages to come around (although I say that every year). |
|
By:
Messenger " And as he slept,so was the poison so pernicious
poured into Mr SnS's shell like.That that fine and noble steed Firebreak !!! Should never join his mare in happy union. " A Shakespearian Tragedy I have never understood that passage, until now.It looks like your husband has been got at - by some strange phantom of the night.Maybe Bearstone,could provide him with some counselling - rehab,role playing,tea and biscuits, I don't know,I'm just trying to help. Good luck with your bet - I shall probably also partake,but a bit nearer raceday.The turf season seems to be taking ages to come around (although I say that every year). |
|
By:
Messenger " And as he slept,so was the poison so pernicious
poured into Mr SnS's shell like.That that fine and noble steed Firebreak !!! Should never join his mare in happy union. " A Shakespearian Tragedy I have never understood that passage, until now.It looks like your husband has been got at - by some strange phantom of the night.Maybe Bearstone,could provide him with some counselling - rehab,role playing,tea and biscuits, I don't know,I'm just trying to help. Good luck with your bet - I shall probably also partake,but a bit nearer raceday.The turf season seems to be taking ages to come around (although I say that every year). |
|
By:
just try and relax buddy sure yiur horse will be good
|
|
By:
Messenger " And as he slept,so was the poison so pernicious poured into Mr SnS's shell like.That that fine and noble steed Firebreak !!! Should never join his mare in happy union. "
A Shakespearian Tragedy I have never understood that passage, until now.It looks like your husband has been got at - by some strange phantom of the night.Maybe Bearstone,could provide him with some counselling - rehab,role playing,tea and biscuits, I don't know,I'm just trying to help. Good luck with your bet - I shall probably also partake,but a bit nearer raceday.The turf season seems to be taking ages to come around (although I say that every year). |
|
By:
sorry your cant spell
|
|
By:
Messenger " And as he slept,so was the poison so pernicious poured into Mr SnS's shell like.That that fine and noble steed Firebreak !!! Should never join his mare in happy union. "
A Shakespearian Tragedy I have never understood that passage, until now.It looks like your husband has been got at - by some strange phantom of the night.Maybe Bearstone,could provide him with some counselling - rehab,role playing,tea and biscuits, I don't know,I'm just trying to help. Good luck with your bet - I shall probably also partake,but a bit nearer raceday.The turf season seems to be taking ages to come around (although I say that every year). |
|
By:
Messenger " And as he slept,so was the poison so pernicious poured into Mr SnS's shell like.That that fine and noble steed Firebreak !!! Should never join his mare in happy union. "
A Shakespearian Tragedy I have never understood that passage, until now.It looks like your husband has been got at - by some strange phantom of the night.Maybe Bearstone,could provide him with some counselling - rehab,role playing,tea and biscuits, I don't know,I'm just trying to help. Good luck with your bet - I shall probably also partake,but a bit nearer raceday.The turf season seems to be taking ages to come around (although I say that every year). |
|
By:
Dominion,I think it must be well and truly stuck!
|
|
By:
Messenger " And as he slept,so was the poison so pernicious poured into Mr SnS's shell like.That that fine and noble steed Firebreak !!! Should never join his mare in happy union. "
A Shakespearian Tragedy I have never understood that passage, until now.It looks like your husband has been got at - by some strange phantom of the night.Maybe Bearstone,could provide him with some counselling - rehab,role playing,tea and biscuits, I don't know,I'm just trying to help. Good luck with your bet - I shall probably also partake,but a bit nearer raceday.The turf season seems to be taking ages to come around (although I say that every year). |
|
By:
Mrs Slick'n'Smooth will have double no treble vision when she reads this!
|
|
By:
Messenger " And as he slept,so was the poison so pernicious poured into Mr SnS's shell like.That that fine and noble steed Firebreak !!! Should never join his mare in happy union. "
A Shakespearian Tragedy I have never understood that passage, until now.It looks like your husband has been got at - by some strange phantom of the night.Maybe Bearstone,could provide him with some counselling - rehab,role playing,tea and biscuits, I don't know,I'm just trying to help. Good luck with your bet - I shall probably also partake,but a bit nearer raceday.The turf season seems to be taking ages to come around (although I say that every year). |
|
By:
I think this stallion may go beyond what was expected of him this year,I guess he wont have many two year olds again this season,but I think when Pat Eddery got HOF for about 14ishk and for a syndicate the plan most likely was to run him and hopefully early,I bet none of them thought he was GR1 class,but as time has gone on he has just kept on improving,just like his own sire.
If im right he has won a listed race and listed place then a GR3 and top all that with a very tough win in a GR1 beating the BC juvenile winner,and PFI Cole had a nice colt in the race aswell that one was 3rd I think,so his form can't really be knocked. Over on the antepost forum they have page after page all about Steinbeck's chances in the 2000,HOF is very easy to forget about,but for me he is very much the dark horse of the race. |
|
By:
A friend of mine has a lowly rated Mind Games filly , as Mind Games is at the same stud as Firebreak i have suggested he send his filly to Firebreak , good vlue at the price, do you think that would be a good idea ?
|
|
By:
Stormbird,The first question to ask is does the mare warrent covering,Firebreak is good value at his price but only really if the mare has a saleable pedigree.
If she does have appeal on paper and is a nice sort then FB would be a good choice esp' considering his results out of Mind Games mares.What is the mares name? |
|
By:
I think she is unraced , but he still wants to breed from her, he has a few horses and non are any good , he had one in training last year that got a rating in the forties, the trainer told him the horse was not interested in racing, it is going to be retrained as a pet. I will try and find out the Mind Games fillies name.
|
|
By:
Stormbird,When you look at those facts even at 3k I cant really see him getting a return.I don't know if your friend has bred before, but if not than get him to really look into the costs involved. For a maiden mare at stud you will probably be charged £20/day, working on the mare being at stud for 60 days (if she is straightforward)then add transport to and from stud, vet bills, swabs scan etc. Foal registration is around £100, entry to the foal sale is about £500. Plus transport to and from foal sales. That is only very basic outline and does not include actually keeping the mare until she foals ,keeping the foal and prepping it.Consider this against a valuation of around 2k for a FB colt out of a mare with no pedigree (thats assuming it is nice and is still being on the generous side) and you can see the sums don't add up. If your friend has plenty of money and wants to keep the foal and race it then that is a different story. Firebreak would still be a good choice.
|
|
By:
Oh yes he wants to keep it , and race it ,if it is any good , my friend is a horse vet , so that cuts down the bills quite a bit.
|
|
By:
Probably is his best chance of getting her to produce something that he could race then for that money. Argue that he'd be better getting a breeze up horse or something though if he wanted a guaranteed race horse, no 2 years of looking after costs before ready to race.
|
|
By:
Stormbird,If he is going to race the thing himself then FB wont be a bad choice,if your freind is a horse vet its no wonder he can afford to have a horse in training,as just this month the bill for routine work ran into several thousand pounds!They are VERY expensive!
|
|
By:
Messenger " And as he slept,so was the poison so pernicious poured into Mr SnS's shell like.That that fine and noble steed Firebreak !!! Should never join his mare in happy union
Dom, I do sometimes wonder who he thinks more of, that mare or myself ;-) .Maybe Bearstone,could provide him with some counselling - rehab,role playing,tea and biscuits, But would Bearstone stretch to that????! A stiff drink would be a necessity! Stormbird, If your friend is wanting to breed a tough and genuine racehorse then he wouldn't go to far wrong with Firebreak. He has done well with Mind Games mares, though I would be wary of that apparent nick as I feel fairly sure it is more a case of oportunity. It does not surprise me either that a friend who can afford several 'useless' horses in training and breed more to run for him is a Vet. As PD says above Vets are not shy of billing you............... |
|
By:
My friend is very busy at the moment , works as a vet for 2 racing stables, one jumps, one on the flat, so i am still waiting to here from him what the pedigree of his filly is exactly.
|
|
By:
I had the flyer from Timeform today about the new edition of Racehorses.
I was interested to read the extract inside and thought I would highlight this quote Two-years-olds capable of winning pattern races are an exteremly rare sight on the racecourse in March but the historic Brocklesby Stakes, the opening two-year-old race of the latest British Flat season, was won by a colt who went on to record one of the best performances by a juvenile in Europe in the Gran Criterium at Milan in October :^) |
|
By:
Do you think HOF will continue to progress from 2-3 years ? There are some good fillies further back in the pedigree of HOF.
|
|
By:
Not only is HOF nailed on to progress from 2 - 3,so are all his progeny eg.Electric Feel,En Fuego,Fireback etc.Just another reason among many to use Firebreak WHILE YOU STILL CAN !!!
NB.There is £159 waiting to be matched at 5.9 on the place market for HOF - the largest amount by far on any horse in the Guineas.You could argue they are taking under the odds.However,they may know something we don''t. |
|
By:
Well spotted.
|
|
By:
Push, I would agree with Dom that HOF has every chance of improving from 2 to 3. Although physically he may look a pure 2yo, he is also a carbon copy of his sire. And Firebreak did nothing but improve, despite being precocious. Add Mind Games, who won the Brocklesby himself and went on again at 3 and 4yo, the chances of HOF improving look convincing. What do you feel?
I think given normal progression and O.Pelisier in the saddle, HOF has strong claims in the 2000. Imagine, if you would, a son of Danehill Dancer, trained by Aidan, owned by 'those' connections and with the form of HOF. Do you think that horse would be 40-1???? I might even argue that he has stronger form claims than Steinbeck, and several others more fancied. But not SNA I fear! (Dom, you have highlighted another of my FB's- to-keep-an-eye-on, En Feugo ;-) ) |
|
By:
SnS , i would not back a son of DDancer at Newmarket as i think they prefer softer ground than you tend to get at Newmarket in May. Although i do like O Briens horses this year Fencing Master, Steinbeck and SNA, i was told that Steinbeck was a fine looking animal , and looked like there was pleny of improvement to come from his Dewhurst run i.e he was not fully wound up.
As for HOF, his best form is on softer ground, he has improved with every race ( dont know why he flopped at Newmarket, i did see him there that day , and did not think he looked anything special ), i am hoping the Ballydoyle blue bloods can improve past HOF. Having said that i have put a saver on HOF at 40-1 as that is a very fair price for what he has achieved at 2 , just not sure he will train on. ( Only time will tell ) Anyway good luck to connections of HOF, the horse has done them proud to date, and has been a very good rep for his sire. |
|
By:
Oh yes i think the jockey OP is great too.
|
|
By:
The point I was making re DD was not completely a literal point, more of an illustration of how a mainstream and fashionable set of connections/sire can make a difference to the percieved chance of that horse and how it's form is interepted.
I would put the Newmarket run down to the useless jockey rather than any fault of the horse. O.P really needs to be on board for a serious chance on May1st. I think Pat Eddery and HOF connections should be given credit where it is due by heading for HQ and not going to a gns abroad. Fair play to them. They have every right to go to the race feeling they have a good shot and not be scared off by the supposed chances of the 'Ballydoyle Bluebloods'. Had Firebreak himself been by Green Desert or Oasis Dream, I don't think your comment would have come up Push. Firebreak was a better racehorse in the true sense of the word than Footsteps, who progressed so well from 2 to 3 to breaking down. FB ran on all surfaces over several seasons and held his form admirably, why would his son NOT train on? |
|
By:
As for HOF, his best form is on softer ground, he has improved with every race
That may be true, but he was also stepping up in distance, so perhaps that had more of a bearing? He had already won on GF and was 5/22 at Royal Ascot on GF. His 2nd in L was Gd, so not convinced that he needs soft. Perhaps he may even be better on Gd/GF over the correct trip? |
|
By:
Yes you are right that it may be the step up in trip rather than the ground that helped HOF show improved form, i hope he makes the 2000G , nice to see one keeping the Warning sire line going.
Only 2 horses have won the 2000G in the last 18 years without a Northern Dancer line sire close up in their pedigree. |
|
By:
One more point that may put me off HOF, now correct me if i am wrong ( i dont know much about breeding racehorses) i only use pedigree analysis as a tool to aid my betting selections, but Firebreak finished 4th in the French 2000 Guineas, now is it not very rare for a sire to sire a horse that actually better than himself ?
So from that point of view it would be difficult / but not impossible to see HOF winning the 2000G. |
|
By:
2 others points as i like to use Trends in the Classics, HOF, would be the earliest 2yo to race in the season ( March ) ROGib, the next earliest was 21st April, and HOF, would have had more races as a 2yo than any other 2000G winner, this of coarse does not stop him from winning the Guineas, indeed Mister Baileys did not have the typical profile before he won the race.
|
|
By:
Push - in my opinion,you make a number of valid and interesting points.The conclusion I draw from your discussion with Mrs SnS,is that HOF is over priced at 40's.I agree.The only point I would have a slight issue with you over,is the comment about sires not siring horses that are better than themselves.Wasn't Firebreak a better horse than Charnwood Forest ?
Normally,I would agree,but there are exceptions. |
|
By:
Just a few to consider.Cape Cross / Sea The Stars.Waajib / Royal Applause.Cyrano de Bergerac / Millkom.Lucky Story / Art Connoisseur.
|
|
By:
dominion, i did not say it was impossible , just rare as the ones you have pointed out are in a small minority compared to the number of horses sired.
I do not have the ratings to hand, but Charwood Forest was a very good racehorse winning the Queen Anne at Royal Ascot , 2nd in the Lockinge and Sussex stakes, which imo are better Grp 1 races than the only Grp 1 race over a mile Firebreak won in Dubai. dominion what is your opinion of the chances of HOF winning to 2000 Guineas ? |