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I have been in touch with Bearstone and FB nomination fee will £3k SLF.
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I have a free return if filly foal option on my mare. Are these normally restricted to the orginial mare? I have emailed Bearstone but week later and no response. Any thoughts on Firebreak and Inchinor mare?
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10k!!!! But I can see your point PD. I think that the Stallion studs must have attended different sales to myself ;-)
3k SLF would still be about right for a sire who has produced the horses he has IMO, but I would hope they would deal to get the numbers. YBFW, I would imagine your FFFR offer would only extend to that mare, however Bearstone may be a little flexible to help move things along for the horse. Firebreak/Inchinor would be fine, but does your mare have some size about her? Some Inchinor's can be on the small side, hence the name of his dam, Inchmurrin, she was little more than a polo pony! Are you still pleased with your foals? Are they off to the foals sales or do you keep them for longer? BTW Dom, your comment re, Breeders propping up the racing game is very true, and also a little close to home this year :-) |
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YBFW be careful,if your mare is on the small side you run a real risk of producing a small horse.FB isn't big and most of his 2 yr olds were on the small side (see M Botti's comments re Electric Feel).I am guessing that all the mares sent to him in his first season weren't small.As we have said before in previous posts - FB does stamp his stock.Personally,if I were you I would look elsewhere.
Mrs SnS, based on what FB achieved as a racehorse,do you think his two yr olds will improve as three yr olds ? |
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Evening, my mare is a decent size and gets good sized offspring so i'm not worried about size. She is a bit of a nutter so Firebreaks relaxed nature is also a bonus. Her first foal won as a 2 year old this year over 7 furlongs. Think I will wait till after xmas and see what deals are kicking about
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Taken from Bearstones website:-
FIREBREAK - coming to us late in the season Firebreaks first book of mares, although full of quality, was not numerous. Despite this he has the distinction of siring a Group 1 winner in his first crop. His son, HEARTS OF FIRE, won the Gran Criterium beating subsequent Breeders Cup Juvenile Gr.1 winner Vale of York. In addition Firebreak has achieved the amazing feat of being the LEADING SIRE OF 2YOs IN EUROPE IN 2009 (by % of SWs to Runners), ahead of many well-established sires. YBFW, If your mare is a good size and you know she produces sizeable offspring then there should be no problem with FB. Hopefully deals will be avaliable. Dom, You would hope that the FB's would progress though I am sure people will have their doubts as they are smallish. Marco Botti has already voiced his concerns re Electric Feel but as they seem to be so similar to their sire you could not write off their chances. He did not exactly stop progressing did he?! En Feugo of Peter C-H is an interesting horse imo. He has more size than the 'usual' FB and is a strong looking horse. I would not be surprised to see him make a mark over 1m and perhaps a little more next season. |
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Was FB's first book of mares 'full of quality' ? I think Bearstone do their stallion a diservice.They have turned a positive into a negative.All Darley need to do is send him a few decent mares and other mare owners will follow their lead.Why should others send him mares when even his own owners won't ?I must be missing something.
Mrs SnS,funny you should mention En Fuego.I was standing in his box the day after he ran at Newmarket.The two most striking features of this horse are a) his physical similarity to his sire,and b)how laid back he is - this horse is positively horizontal.He certainly saves all his energy for the track.I should also point out his physical toughness,because he has met with several set backs and still run a race full of promise at Yarmouth.His owners definitely have a nice horse to race next year. By the way, I am sure his progeny will improve from two to three.I was just trying to flag up another positive for the sire. |
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I agree about Bearstone's assertion that his first book was 'full of quality' perhaps defined by different criteria to my own.....;-) though they do have to find a balance between talking the horse up and how he has upgraded his mares and not completely insulting clients who used him.
I see that on the list of First season Sires in Europe (so including H of F's wins) FB is 8th overall, this is not including Electric Feel's Listed win. A quick glance at the sires above him show the difference in oportunities afforded. One can only hope his owners support him, I agree their lack of patronage does not send an impression of confidence in the horse. It is interesting that you have seen EnFuego, I haven't seen him close to but he seemed stronger and had more size than a typical FB. Is this correct? Your mention of his temperement does not surprise me though, I noticed on his first run that down at the start there were a few others playing up going into the stalls and En F was just stood to one side watching them and even resting a leg! Is your own FB going to P C-H? |
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Dear Mrs SnS, I raised this point,re the lack of patronage from his owners, with an individual quite close to the Bearstone operation.Their opinion was that if his progeny continue to do well,this may well be his last season at Bearstone.If he does move on,I suspect his nomination will increase.Cynics may say this is just a subtle marketing ploy - but the boys in blue did invest £100k in the filly.
Secondly,En Fuego did not strike me in all honesty to be any bigger than the other FB's I have seen.But I was in the box with him,and that really is not the best way to form an opinion regarding his size. My horse is not with PCH.As there will be only a maximum of 7 FB two yr old colts next year you should be able to deduce which one is mine pretty quickly.One clue he will not be trained in Newmarket,Lambourn or Malton. |
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Any ideas on fillies in training next year? Surely Firebreak must get some more mares this year?
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Any ideas on fillies in training next year? Surely Firebreak must get some more mares this year?
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According to my Return of Mares FB has 11 fillies to run next year.
You would hope that he covers some more mares and has some in the sales next year. It is a little disapointing to not see any Firebreak foals entered in sales nor any mares witha Firebreak covering. I do hope he isn't going to become a fairly useful 'marginal' sire similar to Makbul. Though your comments froma Bearstone source are intriguing Dom |
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To keep himself in the public eye he clearly needs more support.With so few runners next year I believe he is in a very weak position.If only Darley would send him a few quality mares - things could be so much better for him.One positive to take from his lack of inches,is that he wont be rebranded as a dual purpose stallion - and packed off to Ireland.I really ,really hope this horses stud career is not mismanaged.
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It seems like it has been from the start,I don't know about ireland but I could see Darley selling him to China or Japan, he does have some appeal to the japs Warning did well over their.If he is to stand a chance over here Darley must move him to Dalham Hall or Kildangan,or poss'Overbury hes off the radar at Bearstone.
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2010 will be make or break for FB.If he does well he goes to Dalham or Kildangan,if not Conference League.PD ,you are obviously going to send him a mare,because you thought his fee would go up to £10k :).Don't let us lose him,like we did Distant Relative,to some far flung outpost to sink into oblivion.If you don't support him PD,I hope you can sleep at night ! The little horse needs you !Do what you know is right !
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I was only joking when I said 10k...........what I was saying is that all stallion fees are way too high.FB like you say needs help I was going to see the crew from Bearstone at Dec'sales,I have a mare that may be just up his street,plenty of speed.Darley need a kick up the rear when it comes to this stallion!I did see a chestnut filly by him at Doncaster oct' sale it was racey but not much of it,from what others on here say sounds a lot like the rest of his stock.
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Anyone made any enquires on FB yet?
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I did'nt see them at the sales,but have given them a ring to cut it short they said at first 2.5k then after a bit of price talking down to 2k but they seem a bit like they are not fussed if I use him or not,they seem a bit pricey with the keep,"lots of interest" but could not give me any idea of poss'numbers,so I may think again.
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I have been told no deals unless I send 2 mares. I paid 1,800 last year with free filly return. I also get the impression that they are not bothered about attracting mares to hm.
Leaves me frustrated what to do, hopefully she will have a cracking filly foal and I can go back for free :) |
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Prima Donna dont think again.Don't let Bearstones apparent indifference to you put you off.£500 off here or there is trivial.He is terrific value at £3k.Only a maximum of 18 2 yr old runners for him next year,plus his 3 yr olds - might well be abroad this time next year.Might go some way to explaining Bearstones back foot stance.
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Dominion,I havent made up my mind yet,the mare that is poss' would suit him but I saw some foals by Misu Bond another well bred fast 2 y'old by a great sire in Danehill Dancer,he to hasent coverd massive books about 40ish I think.They were some of the best sorts I saw ,that sire looks a much better type and has a better pedigree than Firebreak,I havent spoken to Hedgeholme stud yet but hes about £1.500,Im about 60 miles from him so my costs will be lower keep as well id think.
I would of thought Bearstone stud would of met me with open arms but they were trying to get me into the new horse Major Cadeaux,Im sure things would be differant if they owned him themselves,Firebreak seems to play second fiddle all his life.MOVE HIM DARLEY,that stud will put mares into its own sires first FB next. |
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Ones proven,ones unproven.Will MB have a 1000 & 2000 gns entry from his first crop of 18 runners ? Will he have a Brocklesby winner in his first crop ?Will he have £100k yearling in his second crop ?Who was by far the better horse on the track ?Whatever you choose to do,I hope it works out for you.We are all trying to make the best guess we can .
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An interesting point for me to return on, as I am a great moral supporter of FB but I also have a mare in foal to MB!
I too saw the MB foals at Tatts and I agree that they are very good specimens. If my MB foal turns out like those I will be thrilled. FB is a different kettle of fish, whilst he has shown he can produce good racehorses of both sexes he is not yet 'proven'. I fear people will still all too easily write off those performers as either flukes or as having poor form. I have already read that when BC Juvenile winner Vale Of York was beaten by HOF he had been"spooked by the crowd" and that was what allowed the other horse to get past him. RUBBISH! Obv there was a smaller crowd at Santa Anita than San Siro ;-) Though perhaps a more telling insight is the fact that Godolphin bought the sister for so much, they do have the best handle on that form. Misu Bond whilst being a lesser racehorse is a more imposing individual and gets the type of foals the market wants. Alongside his more fashionable pedigree he is still an attractive propostion at his fee.He is the first wave of the Danehill Dancer sons that actually possess a pedigree that might allow them ot produce good quality runners. Whilst his other sire sons to date have been good runners, with such moderate pedigrees is was always unlikely they would breed on. DD has upgraded their dams to produce them but it would be an extraordinary feat indeed for him to upgrade the lowgrade mares sent to his sons. The physical aspect is good point to draw on, the mare I have in foal to MB would be OK for FB regarding price range and type of runners, BUT she would not suit him physically.She needs a strong and muscular horse with a bit of size. FB cannot provide that and I cannot risk getting a tiny foal. Sending him virtually any of my other mares would be to commit commercial suicide for them. I am saddened (though unfortunatley not surprised )to hear of Bearstones attitude to potential customers, I was also surprised at the lack of FB foals, or mares covered by him, in the Dec catalogue. A missed opportunity there. I keep threatening to buy the little horse myself, though my Husband has said NO on more than one occasion! |
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As a point of interest.How much would you estimate the little horse to be worth ?
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I would estimate his value at around 100k and certainly no more than 125k.
That is working on his potential at this moment. If neither EF or HOF go on as hoped next year and he doesn't come up with anything else then you would buy him for less than 30k. I would have thought he would be well suited to standing in Ireland, somewhere like Rathbarry would be ideal for him. |
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Very interesting Mrs SnS.This next season could be all or nothing then ?A point which I have raised earlier with the prevaricating Prima Donna :).I know the market is depressed at the moment,but £30k,sounds very cheap.However,I bow to your superior knowledge in this regard.
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All FB supporters should club together and buy him :)
Bearstones attitude is putting me off using him again |
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I know the feeling filly and broodmare,I dont know about buying firebreak but I am still thinking about him.Bearstone stud are sending him the dam of a Queen Mary winner so that does show some faith in him,
They wont go any lower than 2k for me what was your mare like to get him for £1.800,my fear with them is that if his stock dont go on next year, they will sell him then we all will be left holding the baby.I dont like there new stallion at all, another unsound dreg,3.5k is ab out 2k too much imo. Do you know what hedgeholmes keep costs are for a mare and foal? |
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My mare is Magical Music, i have been told no offers for her this season if she has a colt foal. Hedgeholme stud keep costs are very very reasonable indeed.
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Your mare looks a nice type of prospect when does she foal?
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She foals end of March. We nearly entered her for the Tattersalls mare sales, as i'm sure we would make a profit on her, which in these times is always welcome.
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possibly you wish you had of done as the trade was quite strong for mares,young mares covered with decent stuff were making a premium there was a def age cut off though.they didn't want anything over 10. wannabe grand only made 62k.
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I thought trade would be tough and was not sure on what i was willing to sell her for so decided to hold onto her and get Firebreak foal and hope he continues to do well
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I can see that with all the cost of going to Newmarket,but strike with a hot iron................ but thats very easy to say after last week agree with mrs,SnSmooth about nothing of his at sales,poor stud it must be .
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I have been pleased to see some postive reports about FB in the press of late and also some advertising :-)
Amazing to think that this thread is over a year old. Who would have thought that this would still be going and FB himself would be one of the only two 1st season sires to get a Grp 1 winner ! |
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I am pleased to report that my Firebreak colt is progressing nicely.Very enthusiastic in his work,and every indication that he will be a sharp early two year old.Will probably make an entry for him in the Weatherbys Super Sprint.
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This thread has been refreshing to read and particularly Informative. I don't know much about breeding so this has been an insight, I wish you(Dominion and SNS) the best of luck.
On a separate note, you comment favourably on Misu Bond, can I ask your thoughts on Monsieur Bond if indeed you have any at all?? |
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Dom, that is encouraging news. Lets hope that your colt can be one of several winners in FB's 2nd crop. BT would be a bonus for you and the sire I am sure! Best of luck with him. :-)
Monsieur Bond, I am pleased that you have enjoyed this thread and found it informative. Yes I have used Misu Bond and I think he stansds a chance as one of the better bred sons of DD coming through. As for Monsieur Bond. I am afraid the similarity starts and ends with the names IMO ( a rather unfortunate situation for Reg Bond to stand two sons of DD with such similar sounding names, we have started refering to the older horse as ' Monswar Bond' to avoid confusion) Misu has a better female line and should stand a better chance, as well as being more physicaly like his sire and grand-sire.Monswar is a rather legger type and is now being aimed the 'dual-purpose' market if the advertising bumpf from Bond Corporation is anything to go by. There was a falling out with Whitsbury apparently, hence the move to Yorkshire, but the horse is on the slippery downward slope i am afraid. Misu, however is on the upward curve and if his first foals are anything to go by they should be runners. They were one of the outstanding lots of first season foals at Tatts. |
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In response to Dominion on the overproduction thread, I would agree that Firebreak really could achieve something if managed correctly. Bearstone have upped the anti of late with their advertising but seemingly once the enquiries come in they are less keen to help.
As I have said before, he stands a better chance standing in Ireland and I would think somewhere like Ballyhane would be a good place for him. This subject has been loosely discussed at home, but my Husband does not wish to get involved with Stallion ownership and therefore I personally cannot proceed. However I do know lots of Industry people, and I will follow FB's progress through this season. Do not fear, I will champion his cause to as many of the 'right' people as I can. ;-) I have seen Hearts Of Fire mentioned on the Antepost forum with regard to the 2000gns and there appears to be some money for him. Dom, I would be interested in future updates regarding your FB 2yo. |
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At the moment he is iced in.This is where his wonderful temperament comes into play.Cant get up onto the gallops,so being led in hand round the yard.Regarding Firebreak's future I have a horrible feeling he will end up abroad before anyone can do anything about it.The trade papers keep saying there has never been a better time to own a yearling,well I say there has never been a better time to own a stallion.
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