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In this market I would err on the side of negativity and say that it would make her more saleable rather than more valuable.
Certainly being a tough mare, stock out of her would appeal to trainers. If Firebreak gets a Gr1 winner and shows he can get a good horse, trainers will be willing to buy them. Both of these things will help her. Is she entered in Dec sales then? If so, are you intending to replace her? This will be a good year for people looking to upgrade. |
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How far is the Grand Criterium ? More winners would have been nice.However,the mares he covered would appear on the whole to be an indifferent bunch.SnS -will you be sending him a mare next year?
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The Gran Crit is 1 mile.
The outside mares that Firebreak have covered are indeed a moderate bunch at best. One might almost say that they are the epitomy of overproduction :-) FYI Dominion he is on the list for one of my 'cheapies' for 2010, though my Husband is not as keen as I am. My other mares however are a little out of his price range...................... |
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Very interesting,the gradual step up in trip.Just like his sire.Although arent we flying a bit high with a Group 1 ?Amazed that you have a traitor in the ranks - how can Mr SnS be so off message ? I am very tempted to return.But will I get one as good as the one I have now - have I not been exceptionally lucky ?Besides,how often do fulll brothers and sisters emulate each others ability (good ones,not the bad) ?
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Mr Slick is indeed 'off message' he does not tend to follow a gut instinct, prefering facts and figures. He is very keen to mention Firebreak's lack of number of winners. I still keep my faith in the horse.
It is interesting that you mention about the step up in trip. As Firebreak himself did not truly stay the mile imo, I do find it surprising that his progeny need a longer trip already. Esp considering that his dam was a speedly bred mare and his sire only a miler. I suppose though that this would not rule him out with a chance of a Guineas winner!! :-) Dominion, who is your Firebreak going to next year? As for going back to him with the same mare, that is the age-old dilemma for Breeders. On the one hand if you have produced a nice horse once, then why not go back, but on the other, does this limit your mare? Whilst there are examples of full siblings of similar ability, admittedly they are few. I do use repeat matings, though this is only with strong Black-type mares, and esp if I would like a filly to keep. |
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Mare not entered at Tattersalls. I have a free filly foal nomination so part of me wants a filly then I would go back to Firebreak and save myself some cash. Slick have you heard anything more on Captain Gerrard?
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YFBW, I am sure you would get a good deal on Firebreak next year even if you did have a colt.
As for Captain Gerrard, I don't know any more. I will be watching him this afternoon though. Perhaps now there is an empty stable at Tweenhills he may find a place there? I am keeping a close eye on any announcements for him. Does he hold interest for you? |
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Another pleasing performance for Electric Feel today but still no other winners.....
Slick my Misu Bond is developing into a cracking horse, he's the best looking foal ive bred by a mile, not that we have bred many only in our 3rd year. |
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Looks like I was wrong, Group 1 for Hearts Of Fire, pitiful race mind, barely Group 3 standard in this country! Should get Firebreak noticed though ;)
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How far did he win Ben ?
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neck?
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Didn't see the race, was just looking out for the result, couldn't find it anywhere
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I still cant find result, even on RPsite.Although Bearstone will be bound to have it up - in a couple of weeks !
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http://www.gaet.it/?lang=eng
It says an 'inc.' was the distance, assume that's a neck because testa is head I think. |
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Well, what can I say?! I hate to say I told you so, but........... I think I may have mentioned this scenario occuring? ;-)
I really am so pleased for the horse and my congratulations go out to all connections. For all that people may crab the form or call it a soft Gr 1, as far as I am aware the entries are open to all horses so why were 'better' horses not there? Prize money is good and it is a recognised Gr1, so no excuses IMO. Another point to raise about this win is the fact the mare has not bred a winner before let alone a group horse. So even if this is only equivilent to a Gr3 it is still a huge upgrade on the mare. To get two pattern and Group level horses ( inc a Gr1) from the quality of mares he had and only 36 in the crop I think is a massive acheivement. I can think of many 'better' sires who did not achieve that on their first crops with larger and more accepably bred animals. Something that may also get over-looked is the amount of placed horses Firebreak gets, this again must be taken in view of the mares he has had. Many have failed to get any runners that can catch a cold, so to get places from these horses is not to be shrugged off. Compare Firebreak to his peers Avonbridge and Pastoral Pursuits, both stood at higher fees, both covered larger books of higher grade mares and neither have produced Group 1 winners. The Gran Crit was open to their stock as well remember......... Firebreak is def on my list for one cheapie next season, whatever Mr Slick says! I feel almost as pleased as I would if I had bred him myself :-) Good Luck to all Breeders who used this stallion. I will be trying to look at as many as I can at the sales :-) |
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Nice one Slick, do you know what the sizes of his crops are going to be in the next two years?
En Fuego is entered in a Newmarket maiden on the 16th, usually quite good standard maiden at that meeting hopefully he runs with credit at least. |
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I agree with everything that has been written about Firebreak.The only point I would like to add,is that he must have a marvellous temperament to have travelled so widely throughout Europe and been so successful.The step up in trip also appears crucial - something I will be imparting to my trainer next year.Well done all concerned.
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Ben 10, the only info I have re Crop size is from the return of mares, from which I can tell you he covered 23 mares in 2007 and 29 mares in 2008. So only small crops to come.
Dominion, yes the step up in trip has obv been a great help, but is a surprise to me how much it has helped. However, like I say perhaps the Gns is not out of reach now?!! Temprement wise, Firebreak himself is reputed to be a very laid-back type. I did once speak to the Stud Groom from Scorrier House Stud (one of the 'old-fashioned' types. A proper Stud Groom) when they had had him at the sales as a yearling and apparently he was always very good and that was typical of the family. I remember looking at him in Highflyer and he was a nice-looking horse and well presented. Charlie G-W was shrewd to get him for 27,000gns;-) Perhaps Trainers need to look at the Firebreak's as more than just speedy 2yo's. |
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Another winner for Firebreak today! This is what he needs now, actual winners.
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Hearts of Fire full sister sellls for £100k.Purchased by John Ferguson.It looks like some momentum is beginning to build up for Firebreak now.
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Lets hope so Dominion! I saw the filly go through and I must say that it was refreshing to see people take a horse by Firebreak seriously. Hopefully it may make some sit up and take notice of him (esp his owners, maybe they might support the sire a little now?)
The price will do wonders for his average as well ;-) I am back in Newmarket this weekend and I am looking forward to seeing Electric Feel in the Rockfel on sat. Ryan Moore booked, so hopefully good things are expected. How to cap off a good 7 days!! |
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Interesting to see how En Fuego gets on in 40 minutes, I'll report back :)
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Not a lot to report really! Missed the break and never got into contention at any stage, didn't see anything to suggest he'll win at some point which is disappointing
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hi slick i was pleased to see the filly make 100k. was she a nice horse to go along with been a full sister to group 1 winner?
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hi slick i was pleased to see the filly make 100k. was she a nice horse to go along with been a full sister to group 1 winner?
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Listed winner today. For a crop of only 36 a Gr 1 winner and a Listed winner is not bad going imo.
YBFW, yes the filly was a nice filly, seems to be a very typical Firebreak from those that I have seen. Holdcroft's faces told their own story of how thrilled they were :-) Sales results from Doncaster's abysmal October sale seem to be encouraging re Firebreak. Bad pedigrees, but still made some money. Apparently DBS were promoting Firebreak and Hearts Of Fire quite strongly. No foals in Tatts cat or any mares in foal in the mares. Perhaps everyone is keeping them to yearlings now? Instead of 'get out quick'! |
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Mrs SnS - in your opinion what is a typical Firebreak ? Mine would be as follows.Not over big,good limbs,good temperament,gutsy.Will show ability early on and progress,especially when stepped up in trip.Ground conditions all come alike apart from extremes.Finally,and probably most contentiously hair colour dark bay (black).What I have just outlined as an identikit of a good Firebreak is basically a carbon copy of the sire himself.In other words he stamps his stock.If they dont look like him they wont run like him.
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I would say that is a good assesment Dominion. It has been a while since I have seen Firebreak himself (and his stud picture does him no favours, I wish they would update it) but from what I remember he was not big, but very racy and did not lack scope. He wasn't just a pure 2yo looking horse. The stock I have seen would fit this description too.
He does seem to get a few chestnuts as well, though his best runners certainly are the dark bays. HOF looks very reminscent of his sire and has a similar run style. Todays comment about EF again drew notice to her being tough and genuine. I thought Bearstone's lack of advertising of another stakes winner was disapointing though not surprising. Would your Firebreak be an 'identikit' one Dom? The market doesn't appear to discrimniate against the Firebreaks for being smallish or neat rather than strong and muscular. Stamping them in this way is usually the sign of a useful sire, I know John Warren counts it as a big minus if a yearling does not resemble it's sire. |
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Very interesting that you mention John Warren.Not only does he like to see the sire in the progeny but also the same hair colouring.I have been breeding from three generations of the same female line and I know exactly within a few weeks of being born which ones will have ability and which not .I should add this knowledge did not come cheaply (you live and learn).My Firebreak yearling is an Identikit Firebreak.Of all the horses I have bred from this female line not one is dark bay/black, except one,guess which one ?Thats why he is going nowhere.Before someone adds that all hair colour denotes is hair colour,let me just say that I do not mean that all chestnut Firebreaks will be useless,but that the greater number of good horses by him will be dark bay/black.
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I had a FB this year carbon copy of the sire could'nt get out of its own way !!
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Sorry to hear that.What was the breeding like on the dam side ?
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dam was a wnr but very lowly rated bought him coz he looked so much like sire, not complaining as thats the game but wanted to counter the argument that if they throw to the sire they will be good, mine looked just like the sire and ran like the dam !!
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Perhaps if you give him more time - afterall FB got better with age.Secondly,a step up in trip might also help.Good luck.
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Does anyone know how much Firebreak will be next year? 3k this sure to go up, class winners but only three is it good enough?Why dont Darley move him to Newmarket,they did it with Bertolini.
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Dear PD - despite the recent successes of his progeny I don't think there will be a stampede to use his services,consequently,I don't expect there to be a hike in his stud fee.I think most mare owners will be attracted by the sexier stallions standing elsewhere.As Mrs SnS has pointed out previously he even appears unloved by his own owners and keepers.Lets hope one or two more enlightened individuals send him better quality mares ,to help raise his profile in the coming years.Before you ask-yes,I am returning my mare back to him.
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Sadly I fear you are right Dom. FB is just not 'hot' enough. Had he been by Danehill Dancer or Pivotal he would have been kept very busy.
I would imagine his advertised fee will remain the same, though I would hope that deals will be avaliable. Though his number of winners may not be high, his number of places is respectable and again this must be taken in context of his books sizes and quality. Direct comaprision with Avonbridge or Pastoral Pursuits for exapmle would not be a fair argument. Dom, your mare that produced you your 'identikit' FB, was she a strong muscular type or a more lightly made sort? I am very keen to use him, but realistically the only mare I have for him is not a 'bullock' of a mare. She is 16hh and has plenty of bone but not an awful lot of 'back', she is quality and not a waif. Mr SnS is not keen as he thinks that I would end up with a narrow rat, though I think I should get a nice racy type. Size doesn't seem to affect the prices of FB through the ring and mine would have to be sold as the mare is not from one of my retained families. I can't see him moving as Bertolini did, but there is a spare box at Overbury now Zafeen has gone to France.............. ;-) |
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Dear Mrs SnS - the mare that produced my FB colt,is a female version of him.Not overbig,good bone,racy individual ( plus very good temperament).This initially was the main reason I went to him.Secondly,she is by a sprint stallion.Personally,I wouldn't want to go to FB with a stamina laden mare.Have you considered buying an empty mare at the December sales with a view to sending her to him ?Although I would imagine Bearstone have bought up all the Mindgame mares already !
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Thanks for your reply Dom. The mare I have in mind for him sounds as though she may not be the ideal type, she is by a very good broodmare sire, but he can be a influence for stamina, even though the mare is from a classy precocious family. As for buying one to send to him, I was very interested in a linebreeding 'experiment' mare last year but the mare was withdrawn. This year however I am not keen to increase numbers. The state of the markets have meant I have retained more to race next season, colts as well as fillies.
Perhaps I could make an exception for Lush Lashes, could you imagine the press coverage if I announced I had bought her to send to FB? That would certainly put his name in lights! |
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I hope your gamble pays off next year,and you scoop a few Bonus races.Isn't it criminal that a breeder has to not only stand the cost of breeding a racehorse,but also pay to put it in training and then provide our own prizemoney !!!Pretty soon they will be asking us to make a contribution to the up keep of the tracks we race on.
All that said ,even though you havent got a Firebreak,you spotted him very early on.Full marks.Finally,since John Ferguson purchased the FB filly for £100k,is there any chance that Sheikh Mohammed will send him a few mares this spring - just a thought. |
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The success of this stallion and the way managers are setting 2010 fees can we expect Firebreak to go up to 10k.
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