the other thing Jez struggles to comprehend is that money taken from consolidated revenue or cutting other projects is still our tax dollars

You might fool one or two wombleoz, but you don't fool me.

Play your semantics as you will.

I know the Direct Action Plan will be paid for from taxation revenue, never said it wasn't.

But lets be crystal clear - its not a big new TAX on everything.  It's sourced from EXISTING revenue and BUDGET savings.

Thats the fact.

lol ... 'their reason' being ALL political parties ...

i'd be voting for the climate sceptics i guess ... as an alternative to the blind IPCC rhetoric ... that appears full of mis-information (as they are changing their stories each time thay are found to be false  -even tho they probably believe the stories they put out when they print them)

we ain't at the bottom of it yet lol

interesting theory Jez, i'd suggest the budget costing was the single biggest factor in who Oakeshott sided with

Don't chime in with your "but we need to do it for our children", wombleoz.

Yes, we need to clean up the environment and cut back pollution.

But how about we do something that will actually make a difference?

This tax does nothing to cut pollution, nothing to encourage renewables, nothing to assist the environment, nothing to stop global warming, nothing to stop climate change..........

Its a tax.  Thats it.
It smells like a tax, walks like a tax &
HEY PRESTO, it is a FKN tax.
No more no less, no earth-saver, its a NEW TAX.

imagine being in a place with a couple of thousand people that think like this, well actually they don't all think like this - at least Jez believes in taking some action - it's a sad world when money is king

the rally i attended in Melbourne had 8000 or so people from all age groups, economic backgrounds, religious backgrounds and ethnic backgrounds - have a look at who shows up today IMO

Imagine being in a place with a couple of thousand people that think like this, well actually they don't all think like this - at least Jez believes in taking some action - it's a sad world when money is king

Nonsense and you know it.  More smears and lies, whether Labor or from wombleoz, its more of the same. 

No one disputes cutting pollution and greening up our environment, no matter the cause.

But if you think people will swallow a carbon tax LIE without detail, thats being rushed through parliament, that will hurt our economy and working people and in the end will serve NO PURPOSE to environment whatsoever - you are very much mistaken wombleoz.

when i first started looking at this topic i came across this ... from the australian  scientist who wrote the carbon accounting model (FullCAM) that measures Australia's compliance with the Kyoto Protocol

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/no-smoking
-hot-spot/story-e6frg73o-1111116945238

from there it has been a long & winding road in the quest for truth

the IPCC didn't uphold their end of the bragain in relation to facts either ... by 'slipping in' some 6000 climate change global warming verifications (about a third of all they submitted) that weren't peer reviewed ... despite the IPCC saying all items would be

at copenhagen & cancun ... countries (govt's) were not supporting the IPCC ... most likely because of their lack of veracity in their documentations

we then had julia stating before the election there would be no carbon tax during her term if elected ... so she clearly didn't believe the premise herself at the time (else why would she say she would NOT impose the tax ... clearly because she didn't believe it necessary for our country)

since the election and julia forming a govt with the greens she has been forced to change her stance

with india imposing their carbon tax ... information came up that they did this because Europe blackmailed them ... in relation to trade protectionism if they didn't tax their citizens (well france & italy forced it)

so it appears to me that julia is probably being blackmailed by the greens to 'get this in'

the main question to ask ... as a concerned citizen is this

IF THIS WAS ALL IRREFUTABLE FACT ... AND EVERY PERSON IN THE WORLD KNEW IT WAS FACT ... THEN WE WOULD ALL BE SWITCHING TO AN ALTERNATIVE SOURCE OF POWER IMMEDIATELY ...

but we are not switching to an alternative fuel ... we are not doing anything tangible at all ... anywhere in the industrialsed west

we are creating new taxes ... to take money ... that is all   ...  no change  ... no collective plan ... just a money grab

we need truth & transparency from our leaders ... and soon ...  not just them dipping into our pockets again

3000 maximum

That's about 21,871,900 that didn't turn up.

it's their lives DA

when did it become socially expectable to go to Canberra with tee shirts/placards with DITCH THE BITCH etc?

yes, it's totally unexpectable

violence isn't the answer DA

i'm not here to try and convince Jez he is wrong, he won't admit that BUT if others watching the debate change their position based on what is said it's mission accomplished

For the benefit of those who couldn't be there for yesterdays big media event.

Here's a transcript of Tony Abbott's address to the No Carbon Tax rally crowd:



"  Ladies and gentlemen, I want to say congratulations to all of you for coming out today and letting the Government of Australia know that the people of Australia can never be taken for granted. As I look out on this crowd of fine Australians I want to say that I do not see scientific heretics. I do not see environmental vandals. I see people who want honest government.

The Prime Minister six days before the election stood up before the Australian people and she said “there will be no carbon tax under the government I lead,” and she said that, she said that because she knew that was the only way to stave off defeat. Does anyone think for a second that the Prime Minister would be in The Lodge if six days before the election she had said ‘yes, there will be a carbon tax.’

Because the struggling families of Australia are doing it tough enough. They’re doing it tough enough with all the increased prices, with all the increased government charges. What they don’t need is an unnecessary new tax that will make a tough life harder.

Now, I say to you in all honesty there are a lot of diverse opinions about climate change and I don’t think this is about climate change. Climate change happens, mankind does make a contribution. It’s important to have an intelligent response, not a stupid one, and an intelligent response to climate change means more trees, better soils and smarter technology. It doesn’t mean a great big new tax that just for starters will drive your power bill up by $300 a year. It will put six and a half cents a litre on the cost of filling up your car. It will put $6,240 on the price of a new home and that is just for starters. It won’t just damage your standard of living, it will damage jobs. In fact, this is Australia’s new export under the carbon tax – it’s your jobs.

There are 126,000 jobs that will go in regional Australia. There’s 10,000 jobs that will go in the coal industry alone and 16 big mines will close. There’s 24,000 jobs that will go in the mining industry more generally. There’s 45,000 jobs that will go in the energy intensive sector and as the boss of BlueScope Steel has made clear again and again this is a tax from a Government which doesn’t want us to make things anymore in this country.

It is economic vandalism. It is life and death for the steel industry, for the aluminium industry, for the cement industry, for the motor industry and if this tax comes in, does anyone think for a second that we will use less steel, that we will turn our air conditioners on less, that we will stop driving our cars? No. It means that the steel and the aluminium and the cement will be imported, and those jobs will be exported and that’s the last thing than any Australian should want and that any Australian Government should promote through unnecessary and wrong headed policy change.

Now ladies and gentlemen, you are going to hear a lot of misinformation in the course of this carbon tax fight. One of the pieces of misinformation that you will here is that this is just a tax on big emitters. Wrong. This is a tax on every single Australian. It’s a tax on you. The next thing you will hear is that you will be compensated. Well, let me say this. A tax cut to compensate for a tax hike is not a cut, it’s a con and the Australian public are not mugs. We know what’s really happening. We will not be conned and any government which puts a $2000 a year tax on the average household and then says: please be grateful with $300 or $400 or $1000 back in your pocket, that is not tax reform. That is a tax is a tax mirage.

Ladies and gentlemen, I was delighted to hear the Prime Minister say the other day that she had learned a lot from scripture lessons. Thou shalt not bear false witness and I say in conclusion, even prime ministers are entitled to change their mind but a prime minister is not entitled to change her mind on something as important as this without going back to the people and seeking a mandate. If the argument is as strong as she says, trust the people to know the truth. Go back and have a vote and we will accept the outcome.

Thanks very much indeed. Thank you very much indeed.  Thank you everyone for coming. Democracy is at the heart of our country and democracy means giving everyone the chance to be heard with respect. I am so pleased to have had the chance to meet with some of you, to talk to all of you, I wish the Prime Minister was here, I think she might learn something. I wish the union leaders who represent workers in the manufacturing industry of our country were here. They might learn something.

I am so pleased and thrilled to have so many of my colleagues here. Thank you so much to my colleagues led by Warren Truss. I so thank and appreciate the support of my colleagues. We’ve got Eric Abetz, the Leader of the Opposition in the Senate and I also want to say thank you to Chris Smith and 2GB. You know, it’s easy to be critical of our media and I’ve got to say sometimes I am critical of our media but the great thing about a free media in a free democracy is that it gives the ordinary people of our country a voice. Thank you Chris. Thank you Chris for the voice you have given to the people of this country.  "

The Prime Minister six days before the election stood up before the Australian people and she said “there will be no carbon tax under the government I lead,” and she said that, she said that because she knew that was the only way to stave off defeat. Does anyone think for a second that the Prime Minister would be in The Lodge if six days before the election she had said ‘yes, there will be a carbon tax.’


how very true the labor mantra 'WHATEVER IT TAKES'
ie: lie your guts out

not that you answer questions straight down the line womble[smiley:crazy][smiley:crazy]

but of course the bitch talk was plain stupidity as much anger as the liar has stirred signs like that do the cause no help

i would say to my kids that some people go over the top in describing people and make statments that offend and of course a bitch is a female dog , but making these statements about our great leader is totally not on in any way shape or form.

on the other hand kiddies the PM told a blatant LIE to each and every aussie (which will affect your upbringing)and this is why some people go to such lengths

hey womble same line....

Quick question for womble - what would you say to your kids if they asked what a nazi war criminal is and why the opposition leader is one???

"A representative snap shot of the comrades who follow the labor party" - I certainly hope not

thanks for your answer secong - sensible

i think it's a VERY long bow to say just because people are saying Abbott is a denier re climate change that anyone is calling him a Nazi - so i'd explain that the Liberals are trying to generate a distraction and they are way off the mark

i haven't actually given up on kids, maybe one day i'll find the right lady and we'll have a family but hey, life will go on if that doesn't happen

and using your term - i'd actually be considered a win only bettor - although there's nothing wrong with each way, or place betting if that's your thing

cya,have a good day womble

I'm just curious how Jez + Wombleoz have any time left for betting, due to their
"political activities" on this forum....
But I must admit that some of it does make interesting reading.
Anyway, I'm with Jez.
The greens are watermelons (green on the outside + red on the inside) and they will
be in charge for the next couple of years. It will cast us heaps, so I'll have to put
in some more hours on Betfair to help me pay for it....