You're always retiring!

i personally,dont like to back every day,but a no post is a -1, so find myself having to.thats why posts of 1/10 or down to 1/3,come in to avoid the -1.simple as.i always back the head of the market,+good form+market moves ,i dont follow napsters,my way of backing,is relentlessly boring,some go odds on some drift,drifters are my bug bear.dont get the sunday optional at all,last 3 days in the month always produces long odds flukes,to get promotion ie lordy/.exellent thread though REGED.

As a newbie I would have to say leave the system as is.

The reason being that the settlors have enough to contend with without making any changes leading to more work for them.

Everyone has their own system in selecting their daily nap and good luck to them.We were all aware of the rules on signing up so why should they be changed now.

Just my very humble opinion.

A socialist utopia Lampus, could work well for me

Nice one undecided, look forward to your views.

I've read all this and given quite a lot of thought to it, started writing all the pros and cons, found myself rambling on, so there are acres of rough draft notes I'm not going to bore you with.

Reged summed things up pretty well.

Bottom line

This competition has been running, very successfully, pretty much since Betfair forum started, before my time even, that's years of proven performance and numbers of players has held up pretty well.
The structure is a good mix of longer term interest, yearly tables, and shorter term excitement, monthly goals, as well as being manageable for the kind souls that devote time every single day for our enjoyment.
I would suggest that players can find their own path of enjoyment within the current format and try to remember that not everyone has the same mindset.
If the negativity in the Premier bugs you and you can't shut it out, then I'm pretty sure there is no rule to say you have to reside there, drop out, rejoin in Div 3 and enjoy.

The suggestion that caught my interest was switching to Betfair SP.

I'm ready to be corrected by the more knowledgeable, but I think that standard SP disadvantages those looking for the higher odds because there is an EW element bringing down bookies odds and it affects bigger odds more so than shorter, in general.
Betfair SP being win only should give "truer" odds and give that little extra incentive to be more adventurous, or at least reward those that are without the unfairness that artificial bonus points might bring?

I can think of other disadvantages to BFSP though.

Perhaps shanelee1966, PRODELLBOY, man of many moods and Reged should decide between them if they wish to put a possible change to BFSP to the vote, bearing in mind it could be more hassle getting BFSP and inputting it (Don't worry about the spreadsheet for now, I'm fairly sure we could adjust it to take decimal odds).

If so, start a thread where everyone can post pros and cons, and then hold a vote open to all.

Will do Reg

IN FAVOUR OF BFSP
STARTING JAN 1ST

Playing in Divisions 1, 2 and 3 is very different from playing in the Premier. The object of the exercise is to gain promotion and move up through the Divisions to the Premier. This competition is not about finding who the best overall monthly or annual tipster is. It's about winning the Premier title in any given month. That's the challenge. It's all about tactics on a monthly basis, not an annual one.

Winning Divisions 1 ,2 or 3 is very much a secondary goal which players really only have a go at once they feel they've done enough to secure promotion. Sure, it feels good to win a Division but it's not something we pay much attention to. I don't ever recall seeing any lists of Divisional winners other than the Premier. It's not important, whereas promotion is. And you can get promoted with a total of say £5.00 when the Div winner has scored £45.00. It's a big difference, but to all intents and purposes you're on an equal footing - you both get promoted which was the ONLY object of the exercise. Odds-on selections can play a very important part in gaining that promotion, whether it's simply to try and hold position on the table sometimes by not slipping down £1, or to string a few of them together and make a bit of movement up the table. It's all about tactics, and as I say, odds-on shots can play a significant role in Divs 1, 2 and 3.

It's a different game in the Premier. Just being in the Top 4 or 5 counts for absolutely nothing. There's nowhere to be promoted to! The only thing which matters in the Premier is winning. To achieve that you have to find quite a few decent priced winners, and we all know how tough that is. And with only 25 players instead of 30, it's all too easy to be near the top of the table one minute and then suddenly 3 days later you find you're battling to avoid relegation. And yes, a lot of the Prem players do fight hard to avoid relegation. The ultimate goal is win the Premier, and you can't win it if you're not in it. So odds-on shots can be a vital part of that battle for survival for some players.

On the last day of August I was in the top half of the table but with a negative score, and needing at least a 33/1 shot to win the Premier title. I couldn't find one and any random winner I managed to pick at that price would have been an outrageous fluke and not the way I'd want to win. So I settled for trying to finish in the black with the yearly tables in mind. Which I did with an 8/1 winner. And I daresay I'm not the only one who's ever thought like this even though the annual tables are not actually a part of the monthly competition.

So, banning odds-on winners? No. They have their role to play.
BSP? No, definitely not. Too much difference in the outsider prices.

The ONLY thing I can see which would make a difference and bring back a bit more of a challenge to the Premier would be rewarding placed horses. Make every selection, whatever the price, £1ew instead of £1 to win. This wouldn't be a choice that the player could make. It would be compulsory. So it would be of little advantage to odds-on selections but would give a small but significant enough bonus to players prepared to take more of a risk in the quest to win the title. There have been many times when I've found a suitable ew chance, but have had to go for a shorter price instead simply because there's no reward for a 16/1 shot finishing in the frame, beaten by only half a length.

The more I've thought about it, the more I like the idea.
When I get a chance I'll pick an old month at random and see what difference it might have made (bearing in mind that selections would have been very different if this rule was in force).

Excellent post MoMM. Very interesting idea at the end.

I understand the reason for Dubai's original post.  Having had a couple of years out of the premiership, I got promoted back into it ealier this year and was staggered at the number of odds on shots that are now being posted, which just looks like  survival tactics to me.  I for one want to win it, and not to just survive, and I guess that the current tactics reduce the likely winners and so should be good for me

The one change I agree with is MOMM's suggestion that the stake each day is £1 e/w.  This would reward those going for the longer priced ones that just get beat, which requires more skill than picking a 1/5 shot.

MoMM a good write up. It seems to be just the premiership that needs a change and i agree with your suggestion for a £1 e/w nap for premiership only but i believe this should be by choice not compulsory, we all think we are good tipsters who are supposed to know what we are talking about and for anyone interested in joining us i dont think a look at the premiership table seeing a £1 e/w bet on a 4/9 shot would look like anything other than a JOKE why would we be putting a bet on like that? It would not be a good advertisement for new recruits. It would make the competition look farcical.

Ok Salmon you aint taking the bait, good night.

Strange comment  salmon spray?  -you have lost me -im just voicing an opinion on what i feel is wrong with the current state of affairs with the competition -you seem to have a different view which is fine but lets not be getting personal eh ? -its supposed to be an open debate is it not. I have no intention of getting into a betfair forum fight with anyone hence the reason i rarely post - i have made my views clear and i have enjoyed reading other peoples thoughts on the matter -nothing more nothing less
Good night guys and i look forward to reading other views tomorrow

Do you remember who your brother-in-law is DB ?
And I think at least one person is making it personal against me.

I think the naps comp works perfectly well as it is. If people want to nap odds on chances then why shouldn't they, though I don't think it's a method that would suit me, as you need to be right far too often in order to show a profit.

I virtually never back a horse that is at under 2/1, so I certainly wouldn't be putting one forward as a nap.

Clearly remaining in the Premier is a goal for some players and is obviously an excellent measure of consistency. That is just not my aim in playing.

I can see the logic in switching to Betfair SP, provided it was practical and the settlers were able to make the change without increasing their workload. However, it is obviously something that in theory would favour my way of playing and if the majority prefer to stick with the present format that's fine by me.

The one change I would like is introducing a minimum requirement for the number of naps per month (25, except 24 in Feb, perhaps) and getting rid of Sunday as an optional day. During the winter the racing on Monday is generally poor and weighted heavily in favour of all-weather in which I have no interest at all. Sundays often feature good jumping cards, particularly in Ireland. If the weather resulted in a blank day, then the monthly minimum could be reduced by one.

Reged,

good point, and one that has to be paramount in all this discussion. We're extremely lucky that the settlers give up their time in the way that they do.

You are actually allowed to have 10 unnamed selections per month. I appreciate people haven't always got the time or simply forget on odd days but certainly in the premiership quite a lot of people have standing instructions to meet such eventualities and I presume Reged does the same in Div 3 if asked.