I have restricted eyesight.
Can't read posts that are long and not spaced.
Can struggle through them somedays but not today.
Genuine btw.

Reposed at request. I’m quite flattered, as usually people are keen for me to post less and definitely not repeat myself as much -


I refer you to my earlier post about not dealing with actual arguments being a sign that you’re losing the debate. As pointed out, the German car industry canard was why we’d do just fine in negotiating a deal. Now we’re looking shafted, because we’ve totally failed to get a deal that meets the approval of anyone outside the most supine Tory loyalists, it’s why we’ll now be fine if we have no deal.


Again, as pointed out to you, it’s just not as simple as suddenly removing a vast number of arangements and trade agreements then expecting everything to be all right because the trade block we’re leaving will also be affected. Apparently these trade agreement matter with the rest of the world, hence the need to leave the EU to negotiate new deals but oddly, we’ll be fine removing them suddenly with our largest trading partners.


I get that it’s complicated but the blithe disregard for reality is exactly the problem with Brexit. When asked how it will work, you just get arm waving, waffle and lies oh and on here you get stupid ad homs, suggesting that the people wanting things that will wreck the country are patriots and those in favour of not doing so are traitors.

I don’t believe that the referendum result means we have to leave the EU no matter what, although I can understand taking that position and I do think it would be hugely problematic not to. I see no remotely good ways to proceed from here. 

I’m sure the EU will make some further arrangements in the event of no deal. They’ve actually been more forthcoming with plans than HMG so far too. I also agree that there’s no precedent at all so this is uncharted, although I really can’t see how that’s a good thing. That’s not the same as it being possible just to make stuff up and carry on exactly as we see fit though as there are rules that obtain and you’d have to be pretty naive not to think the EU would have the whip hand in negotiations, even if some kind of transition to no deal could be agreed (with the EU, with us in a panic). After all, that would just be another clock and trade deals don’t emerge quickly. The EU, as any observer of the negotiations so far would see, is very good at this stuff. We, as any observer of the negotiations so far would see, have not been. Piling on extra time pressure is not a good thing. But there will be a clock whatever happens, short of revoking A50, which can’t be done politically, or at least not without a second referendum and a remain result, following an A50 extension.

I don’t really buy this EU bending the rules thing. Yes, of course they want a deal but that they’ll bend the rules loads for us and we’ll end up with a great deal is something I keep hearing through this process and yet here we are, without one and with the clock ticking loudly. Even if we were good at negotiating, politically united and not under time pressure, I don’t think the EU would be offering us the kinds of things we were told were possible.

Waffle from Fatslogger, surely not? 

Is Fatslogger a remainer or a leaver? I've absolutely no idea of his position

he will be a remainer , they’re like that

He might only be a waffler but he seems to have little Donny in his pocket.

ah, confine yourself to betting if you wish, this is a forum about politics

I like crippens posts, there i,ve said it

sexism too crippen

you must have got out wrong side of your bed this morning

Why have you got beds on your mind Donny, are you sleeping rough again?

politics pauper is a bad lot, there's little doubt about that.

Farage is discussing Article 24 on LBC at the moment.

Which means leaving the EU without a deal, but extending the current trading conditions for at least two years while we come to a lasting arrangement with the EU.

No deal no problem.

Brexit: £17bn already ripped out of UK public purse due to decision to quit EU, research shows

That's, what? £350 million a week? Where have we seen that figure before?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-cost-uk-17-billion-gdp-hit-public-finances-a8746846.html

which is to mislead.

Sorry, lfc, that was.

pp and Donny desperately trying to goad other posters into responding to their abuse in a likewise manner.
I wonder why? Could their fingers be poised over the report button? pp certainly has form.

Please explain this conundrum .....The WTO would want some border integrity between us Britain, and a third party non-member such as the EU/Rep. of Ireland..or they won't let us in.

If we start putting checkpoints up at the border we would be breaching the good friday agreement...a international treaty ratified by the UN

Also, if we give a FTA deal with the EU26....other WTO members would kick off and we have to reciprocate zero tariffs to them as well..Making negotiating for perks all too redundant

Where is this golden WTO rainbow I hear everybody talking about?