There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
These 230 comments are related to the topic:
Shoemark loses Gosden job.
Shoemark loses Gosden job.
sort by:
Show
per page
Replies: 230
|
By:
Did you watch Lester winning the guineas on Shadeed in 1985?
|
|
By:
Is anybody suggesting that Shoemark should be mentioned in the same breath as the above?
I know that I wouldn't. A journeyman Jockey who fell into a top job |
|
By:
Maybe some of those hall of fame guys might have won. But not Dettori. And certainly not Ryan. No better judge of pace than Ryan over middle distances. But sprinters and milers, no thank you.
Buick is head and shoulders the best jock up the Rowley Mile at the moment. In fact had he been on Shadow of Light I fancy that one might have done the business. Ryan and Frankie rolled up on favoured Ballydoyle horses in 2021 & 2022 and finished down the field |
|
By:
Better than Journeyman he is vert talented imho.
|
|
By:
A slightly derogatory remark Acey but,no way is he top class
|
|
By:
Its weird how the jockey apologists dont see the point being made. The point was simply it was poor ride and why the media were so cowardly as to not discuss it. Then people on here started arguing that it wasn't a poor ride and thats why they didn’t discuss it. And that line of argument has been conclusively proven wring with subsequent events/comments by the participants.
|
|
By:
I meant discuss and criticise it at the time not now when now its ok to discuss it it seems
|
|
By:
Almost a week ago move on……
Spencer blew two,1000 & 2000….. |
|
By:
Almost a week ago move on……
Spencer blew two,1000 & 2000….. |
|
By:
I think Gosden should have considered this appointment and predicament as possibilities prior; Shoemark is no Dettori for obvious reasons; Moore blew up on many credible shortie Gp1 favs at Ascot. As such, I believe the decision to opt for the "best available" jockey around now.
I'm sure Shoemark will ride with aplomb just as he's been doing prior to last Saturday debacle. |
|
By:
In as much as I would be firmly in the 'poor ride' camp, to play devil's advocate is there an argument to be made that if allowed to continue riding as No.1 the jockey would be absolutely determined not to mess up again and would actually benefit from this episode?
|
|
By:
Not just one ride, accumulated evidence. Inspiral ride was another that did not please the owners. He had one ride on Trawlerman and 6 on Emily Upjohn in valuable races and won none of them. Of course the horses might not have won with any other jockey but it is the body of evidence that has caused the move. As the OP says, the final straw. None of us really know how much is due to poor instructions from the trainer as he seems to make fewer mistakes for other yards.
|
|
By:
MJK, being determined not to mess up and having the instinct to make the right moves are not the same thing.
|
|
By:
Inspiral's not won since,Trawlerman's a Godolphin horse who's not won either & Emily Upjohn
hasn't won since 2023. |
|
By:
Shoemark seems like a nice guy, but this has been on the cards for a while.
The difference between success and failure is so small at the top level of sport and with Shoemark and Gosden, he did sometimes just fall on the wrong side of the line. Field of Gold was a perfect example. He rode it with a touch too much confidence and when the horse was a fraction longer in quickening than he thought he had an uphill task. Possible that a more experienced would have taken that into account and got down to the task a few seconds earlier. Surely then the horse would have won by a couple of lengths? Then KS would have been a hero. But, and this is where I came in, the difference at the top between success and failure in tiny. |
|
By:
doesn't really matter what people thinks, comes down to what JG thinks and what his owners say to him, whether right or wrong it's his yard and his owners
|
|
By:
The default position of most jocks in most races is to hold the horse up and hope it has enough ability to get you out of trouble.
Its what Shoemark did on FOG. Predictably it failed. Gosden enjoyed a purple patch with Dettori when FD was riding the Ballydoyle batalions to sleep a few years back. Mainly thru well judged front-running/prominent rides. On horses like Enable. It was never going to last. Plenty of occasions Frankie adopted the default position in races like the Derby. He had a very average record in that race. Ryan virtually got beaten on every Derby fav from 2016 til Auguste ROdin obliged so he is far from perfect. Its interesting that Kieren bounced out of the gate and made most in the Cheshire Oaks yesterday on Queen of Thieves. Just as predictably the filly fell out the back of the TV screen up the home straight. IMO its what would have happened to FOG if those tactics would have been adopted at Newmarket. |
|
By:
MJK08 May 25 09:06Joined: 13 May 10 | Topic/replies: 18,092 | Blogger: MJK's blog
In as much as I would be firmly in the 'poor ride' camp, to play devil's advocate is there an argument to be made that if allowed to continue riding as No.1 the jockey would be absolutely determined not to mess up again and would actually benefit from this episode? My thoughts exactly.  |
|
By:
the carry on and it will get better theory ,was tried to destruction last season, those are the important words in JG statement , ITS EARLY IN THE SEASON,so we,ve acted, I think this horse winning the craven 4 weeks ago was for some people their last season hangover quote that had been in their back pocket for 9 months, WE TOLD YOU SO, JG didn't fancy waiting possibly till next yrs craven for another WE TOLD YOU SO moment , its like sacking a football manager once you've made your mind up,do you give him the next 4 games which loon winnable on paper and then you cant act or act and give a new manager/jock a chance of getting off with a few winners
|
|
By:
FOG raced keenly early on in the race, maybe not as keen as in its previous races. But I would look there if you want an excuse for the defeat, that and the winner is the better Horse. Also, wouldn't FOG be finishing well past a slowing down RC after the line? 2 strides later and it still didn't passed FC. This tells me the horse was all out to get second and it finished in the best possible placing on THE DAY.
A total kneejerk reaction from connections to demote him from being 1st jockey IMVHO Remember David Egan was made the fall guy after Mishriff's run in the Eclipse. That horse looked unlucky on the day but the "best available" didn't do any better on the Horse afterwards, in fact it went backwards for a number of the "best available" |
|
By:
I thought I spotted a quirky head carriage on Field of Gold.
|
|
By:
shoemark said he reigned him back to far wanted to ride him 6 lengths further forward where Harrington's horse was
so he,s ran 6 f in the wrong spot rode him to confidently and wish hew,d kicked going in to the dip for a jockey it doesn't get more of a car crash ride and only pulling it of the fire excuses it, NONE OF THAT IS MY OPINION BUT OUT OF HORSES MOUTH so if you a have any problems with it,take it up with shoemark |
|
By:
ratty currently pointing out that anyone on here who think,s Buick and shoemark went for their whips/horses at the same time, should have their accs suspended for their own safety
 |
|
By:
FOG beat Wimbledon Hawkeye 3 1/2L in the Craven....he beat the same Horse 5 1/2L in the 2000gns. So an improved run but not good enough to beat the winner (being keen early didn't help) That's the way I read the race and I'll leave it that. I hope KS isn't too hard on himself, he rode the Horse to the best possible placing IMO
|
|
By:
not arguing rights or wrongs at the end of race but plenty on here if you go back and read the early comments were defending the ride saying both jocks came off bridle went for their horses/whip at the same time, which is 100% plainly and obviously untrue a lie
|
|
By:
If he had ridden the horse 6L further forward he would have been leading and would most certainly pulled his race away,1st timer
|
|
By:
you must have missed the bit where I said TAKE IT UP WITH THE JOCK THATS WHAT HE SAID ON LIVE TV FOR ALL TO HEAR
|
|
By:
If that is the case he is talking absolute cobblers
|
|
By:
Whippin 1504 good post
|
|
By:
Fair enough 1TP. There's no way they went for their Horses at the same time. WB went first, no doubt with the intention of bringing that one's stamina into play and KS waiting as long as possible (the majority think too long) so he could bring FOG's burst of speed into play.
Thank Jim. It's interesting there's no mention of FOG being keen in the form comments. I believe he was, not enough to lose the race due to it, but certainly enough to warrant KS getting some cover for FOG early doors to help settle him. |
|
By:
Was just as keen in the Craven. Part of the difference as far as I can see is that in the 2000 it was running on its own in a crucial part of the race whereas in the guineas it was running through horses. I wouldn’t be surprised if Gosden said to Shoemark not to get boxed in as he looked like doing at one point in the Craven and that fuct it.
|
|
By:
Sorry whereas in the craven it was etc etc
|
|
By:
Good point CC.
|
|
By:
Horse had taken races by scruff of neck before, the idea it needed cover is false, Only person that has mentioned winning on bridle is the jockeys minds eye of an excuse.
His excuse doesn't hold water imo and it was more than a mistake,I look at race after a few days and can only see a horse that was given no chance, the winner needed a pace horse and company last furlong. Fact he has in effect been sacked after things have been ruminated by connections suggests they think there is more than just being useless to it. Rancid ride, just except it, the teachers pet types that came out straight after and defended it are absolute shyte 4 brains. |
|
By:
breadnnutter has lost none of his inability to read races
|
|
By:
Leave the race reading to the brush sweeping teachers pets. I read horses. And at a push human nature via character, wether it's written word or listening and watching the words come out via TV.
I read horses and I don't need some no mark telling me whats what. Best horse finished second and was never given a chance to win, JG areas with me and that's good enough 4 me, but you know better than him, away and eat dog poo ya cabbage. |
|
By:
Charming.
|
|
By:
"Gosden agrees with me"
You would struggle to read the Beano you clueless cretin |
|
By:
Dreadful way to talk tbf…
|
|
By:
Strange individual iron…
|