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Jockey Club Racecourse ~ revised each way terms ~ ALL CHANGE
Jockey Club Racecourse ~ revised each way terms ~ ALL CHANGE
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adge, do a calculation of the win parts of your ew only transactions and tell us how much you won or lost.
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don't have software to do that or the energy but you can't get away from the point that when you are betting to 1% per runner the place percentage at 1/5th odds is low and at 1/4 odds is overbroke.
I don't mind betting overbroke on places on maidens because I can use my skill and judgement to survive that because in those races punters want each way but betting overbroke on places in handicaps is suicide. you can't go lower win prices and bet 1/4 because the punters ignore you as we tried in the early days , it just doesn't work . |
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anyway , I have the problem of the two books to the left an two to the right of me betting 1/5th on the 15 runner handicaps today to contend with
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name and shame adge !!
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I had one next to me at York in tatts too adge.
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I just wonder if being in the minority really is the right way. all the usual suspects DM
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Now the negatives are coming out adge - after you extolling the virtues of good old York Silver !!
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and weather to contend with today too , another negative.
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IM SURE YOULL BREAK ALL RECORDS ADGE ME OLD PAL
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Ribero1 post of 20 Aug 2013 @ 19.49 is inaccurate and I feel compelled to add my recollections.
Firstly ,if you ask Geoff Banks he would readily agree that it wasn't me who he spoke to on Meat Loaf Saturday (I doubt he knows who I am for starters).My pick wasn't as you assumed next to his and my best guess would be Jack lynn is the bookie concerned. With regard to the supposed well reasoned argument by Will Rosoff he was introduced by the then NAB chairman John Stevenson as being an expert in the field of exchange betting. In Will Rosoffs opening statement he told the assembled audience he did not have a Betfair account.On hearing this to my mind any credence evaporated.Bearing in mind the meeting was at least 10 years ago I can forgive a lapse of memory but cannot let it go unanswered. My reasons for returning to the oncourse industry are again in my view totally different from yours ,but will happily explain if you ever wish to discuss them with me . A @ A Racing |
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Ok,apologies if I got things wrong but an easy mistake to make looking at the newbury rails list and its certainly none of my business why you are back in the ring and apologies again.
However while we are here just a couple of questions,firstly were you or were you not strongly in favour of using exchanges on course back then?and did you not try and speak up in favour of them at that meeting? Secondly what is your view on the impact of exchanges in the ring now you are back? |
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re the place terms the sooner the better this change comes in yet another example was in the first at cartmel yesterday first race 6 runners those betting at 1/4 1,2 had around 117 in the place book yet there were still books going 1/5th they just cant help themselves.
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the same as all those around me going 1/5th odds in the ebor. the RCA would have accepted 1/6th odds in certain maiden races as not a problem but the one's who shout the loudest are the one's who shot themselves in the foot and lost the arguement
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What happens under the JCR rules if you are betting 1/4 1,2 in a 5 runner race and there is a non runner?
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it reverts to 1/5th 12
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adge - are you totally sure of that?
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That is my understanding of it too inthknow, unless you display otherwise (ie 4 or less win only)
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it wont matter because there wont be anyone to enforce the rules.
don't forget when the rule changes came in if a bookmaker changed the standard terms to 1/5th 1st 4 in a 16 runner handicap he was meant to pay out on the 4th even if one got withdrawn and made it 15 but nobody ever did. |
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Surely they should revert to win only as per Tatts rules.
It is no different to people offering non standard terms now. They should revert to standard Tatts terms if there is a non runner unless they display that they will be doing otherwise. |
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don't forget when the rule changes came in if a bookmaker changed the standard terms to 1/5th 1st 4 in a 16 runner handicap he was meant to pay out on the 4th even if one got withdrawn and made it 15 but nobody ever did.
Is that right? I thought that any NR meant reversion to standard terms. |
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I'll try and get the correct ruling
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bb
if you changed the place terms you were meant to honour them regardless but as I say nobody did because nobody enforced it. |
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no , but the usual suspects then paid 1/5th 123 [ not changing to 1/4 123 ]
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Get going!
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this very thing happened at the Pontefract sunday last week BB.
a horse got withdrawn at the start reducing from 5 to 4 runners. the course announcement took three gos before saying place betting was changed from two places to one [ which very few understood ] I have been betting each way 12 with four runners for more than two years now and paid accordingly , everybody collected on the second |
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Ribero1,
You are absolutely 100% correct that I was a passionate supporter of Betfair at the meeting and went to many lengths to try and establish its role on the racecourse.I did not see then and don't now ,how monitoring of Exchanges by anyone with internet access can be avoided on a racecourse in a way that would work,leading to inevitable opportunities for arbing. Despite this I would readily agree that Betfair has led to a decline of ring viability and with the benefit of hindsight would not have been so blinkered, but at the time I believed in the benefits but not the impact these would have. Various associations spent too much time arguing amongst themselves without ever grappling the bigger issues and that remains the case. The rings are in a bad shape ,much worse than I thought possible and its only the British Publics devotion to racing that is keeping many oncourse bookmakers in a living.The enduring love of horses and racing has been racecourse bookmakers saviour and long may that continue. A lot of water has flown under many bridges,opportunities abounded for anyone with vision and belief and its still a work in progress.I don't regret much of what I have done in the past ten years or so,its been an exciting, creative time-I dont think many racecourse bookmakers would say the same. |
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Good post kevin,I've still enjoyed the last 10 years although like others feel very frustrated by the actions of many who now call themselves bookmakers and of course they can only get away with this because they have the exchanges to protect them.
I was passionately against them because of all the money going out of the ring and that remains my stance although I have to use them myself nowadays. Incidentally I was also quite clued up on in running betting from the early days as with a decent knowledge of the horses I could get a few bob even typing the bets in during the race at home!And was well aware that it was a licence to print money for the fast pic boys in those days,good luck. |
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Good for you-I got into it quite late but found other vehicles to work on that I found worthwhile.Might be interesting one day to swop war stories,
Be lucky Alan |
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I BET EW 1-4 ...1-2 15 YEARS AGO ....CANT REMEMBER ANYBODY ELSE DOING IT AT THE TIME
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YA SEE RIBERO ..WHAT ANNOYED ME WAS ,IT DIDNT BOTHER ME WHO I BET NEXT TO ON THE OLD ESL ...BUT THE PIGS WHO WOULDNT LAY DOG MUCK CAME ALONG IN 2000 NOW BECAME RICHARD THE LIONHEARTS .....IF EVER A FELLA DID THE RIGHT THING IT WAS YOUR MAN RIBERO .....THE PIGS WOULD HAVE DESTROYED HIS SELF ESTEEM
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Banks was ere...
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Re: previous post about ARB AGM- I understand that far from a packed house, not even the telephone box was full.
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adge, re your Ponte example. Weren't the puntes who backed the winner a bit p*ssed off only being paid the place part instead of double stakes on the winner ?
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Just for clarification, in the event of w/d horses reducing a field to less than 5 runners, billys will round-up all ew stakes to win & all reps will have a notice displayed to reflect this
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not one of them , ian , it's exactly what they expected.
intheknow , I hope you will have checked with the RCA before doing that as it appears to contravene the basic set terms |
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Thats right Johnny you could hold your own against most and hope you might get next to a total non-trier...... now everybody a trier cos of the back up they got behind the joint............ times change though
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Thats right Johnny you could hold your own against most and hope you might get next to a total non-trier...... now everybody a trier cos of the back up they got behind the joint............ times change though
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yes adge, we are in the process of confirming this but I'm hopeful that the RCA & subsequently ARC will put something on the AGT website in a similar vein to the JCR clarification statement
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we have guests attending next sunday. so will have full clarity provided then. more to follow on this
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yes, unfortunately I can't attend as down in Cardiff that weekend
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