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Jockey Club Racecourse ~ revised each way terms ~ ALL CHANGE
Jockey Club Racecourse ~ revised each way terms ~ ALL CHANGE
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mugbookie, i understand your sentiments. i don't lack for confidence in our community - we used to tow the line, we've just developed bad habits with the new gambling act
chatto no disrespect but you didn't read. I neither endorsed nor congratulated RG or KJ. All i pointed out is the nature of the beast in trying to negotiate on behalf of so many differeing views. Although i count both as friends - I argued the following points 1. Racetracks should have been penalised if they chose to engage in betting in direct competition to bookmakers by appropriate loss in multipliers 2. Marketing fee lacked transparency or direction. Was too wishy washy 3. Standard terms on place as part of the contracts The FRB did not believe these issues should hold up contracts, I was outpointed in a meeting of the FRB There has been a move by some leaders to 'challenge legally' the move by JCR. I have told them, in my opinion, this is an outdated view, and to fight tracks eternally will prove wholly counter productive in future negotiations,- in particular with regards to fees, rentals, exchanges As a colleague said to me saturday - it's time to defuse rows with tracks and work as one unit |
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Sportsadviser,I founded the FRB with your father. It was never the intention of this union that it should supercede the RBA and the NAB.With respect to the legal aspect of the place terms suggestions I believe that these are a clear case of restaint of trade and could be declared illegal although I believe that the suggestions should be adopted.What is certain is that with such a divisive issue FRB funds should not be used to launch such a challenge.
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Sports - you are spot on in nearly everything you say..... surely the next move is to agree with individual racecourses that they will negotiate directly with individual pitch holders at the track as has been mentioned on here before (elected by a majority of pitch holders at that particular track)...... The associations need to be made defunct overnight along with many of the dinosaurs that are associated with them.....
Anybody proven to subsequently have acted with a self-interest only will be struck off and not be allowed to be re-elected ever should such a situation arise.... debit card payments free bets e.t.c,are innovations and show that it is alive in the ring to some extent so there is some forward thinking around....... times change and you have to change with them and if people aren't prepared to change they have no place on negotiating committee's HMV a classic example they didn't change or adapt while everybody was using Amazon I Tunes e.t.c....... just let times pass them by........ Landlord and Tenant although the tenant pays rent they work in collaboration in the main as both depend on one another..... wouldn't it be good as you say if the racecourses could work in tandem with the on-course books |
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I have met in both formal and informal nature with the majority of leading track management and or owners. I have absolutely no doubt they are committed to the ring - provided we behave.
We have to reestablish some standards which we have forgotten. Values that both customers and tracks respect. These are maybe not as important to some as persay issue on fees, but in my view tracks must view us as sensible and caring businessmen with respect for our punters I'm afraid far too many firms have got away from core values such as simple act of looking sharp, rather than turning up in jeans to bet - or permitting staff to do the same. It's hugely dis respectful and would not wash in any other business except perhaps bar staff For a lot of 'traders' my term for the lazy folk who turn up a mess and fiddle around to pennies on exchanges, the only issue is price. Provided they are 17/2 and someone else is 8/1 - they do not care how they treat folk. This is a huge error and one I'm sure the tracks view with disdain as well as many of our customers My battleplan tarts with addressing our own isues and would be to introduce standards on the following: 1. dress 2. Liability minimums 3. Secondary advertising - state of equipment 4. pitch renting - outlaw 5. Price ladder minimums Issue 2 and 5 have a huge role to play, if we are to bet to a sustainable margin |
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Sports - isnt dress code part of AGT Terms and the problem is they do not police it. Also the case with BF umbrellas?
What do you mean by price ladder minimum? |
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SPORTS - MOST INTERESTING POST OF THE DAY..... JUST WHO ARE THESE 'TARTS' THAT YOU'RE GOING INTO BATTLE WITH......DOES THE 'DRESS' CODE APPLY TO THEM ?
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SPORTS,I WOULDNT BE SURPRISED IF U HAVE INVESTED YOUR VAST WEALTH INTO RACECOURSE SHARES,£2 FOR A CUP OF TEA "DOESNT SEEM DEAR TO ME" OUT OF TOUCH WOULD BE AN UNDERSTATEMENT,AND IF U THINK THE DRESS CODE OF BOOKMAKERS IS THE NUMBER ONE CONCERN THEN FRANKLY MY FRIEND U R IN CUCKOO LAND.HAVING RETURNED FROM WOLVERHAMPTON TONIGHT I CAN REPORT I ASKED TWO ONCOURSE BOOKMAKERS FOR A BET,ONE A 500 FOR 80,6/1 ON THE BOARD,GOT LAID NOTHING(NO ONE ELSE INFRONT OR BEHIND ME),THEN TRIED TO BACK ONE TO WIN A MONKEY AND GOT LAID TO WIN £300,I DONT GIVE A FLYING FK IF BOTH BOOKS HAD BEEN WEARING LEOTARDS WITH HIGH HEELS ON ALL I WANT LIKE MOST PEOPLE WHO GO RACING IS TO GET A BET ON AT THE ADVERTISED PRICE.
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whilst we will never get all bookmakers to agree about place terms,badge fees, renting, link ups and many other things the one thing me must surely be united in is the threat off betfred.
I would be surprised if anybody did more days racing in a year than I did both as a spectator and a as bookmaker north south east and west,those bookmakers I have heard say these mobile betting units betfred have, only really take placepots and forcasts are kidding themselves, I have seen the places they pitch up and the ammounts of cash they are taking away from the ring and fred done will only get more aggressive in the way he operates soon it will be to late to fight him he is/will walk all over us unless things start happening now so whoever our leaders will be this has to be a priority. |
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Fact.... Correct me if I am wrong but I think in short you are saying you have bumped into yet another exchange agent on a racecourse in the UK
 I must admit though would you really want to take a decent bet on any AW track? |
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RR YOU ARE WRONG,THE FIRM THAT LAID ME NOTHING HAVE THOUSANDS OF BETTING SHOPS NATIONWIDE,AND THEREIN LIES THE PROBLEM,U WOULD THINK U SHOULD BE ABLE TO BACK ANY HORSE TO WIN A MONKEY WITH ANY RACECOURSE BOOKMAKER IN THE COUNTRY(EVEN MORE SO NOW 90% OF EM BEING COMMISSION AGENTS)BUT THATS CLEARLY NOT THE CASE,JUST LIKE OFFCOURSE BETTING THE BIGGER THE FIRM THE HARDER IT IS TO GET ON,MIND U THEY DO DRESS WELL
 .MAY I CONGRATULATE MUGBOOKIE ON HIS EXCELLENT POST REGARDING OUR FORMER LEADERS,SPOT ON YET AGAIN  |
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APART FROM THE RESULTS LAST NIGHT OR LACK OF EM,HAD QUITE AN ENTERTAINING NIGHT WITH THE BOOKMAKING MYTH THAT IS MICKEY FLETCHER,HE HAD TO LEAVE AFTER RACE FOUR TO DO HIS NIGHT SHIFT AS A REFUSE COLLECTOR FOR BIRMINGHAM COUNCIL,BUT BEFORE THAT I WAS GIVEN A LESSON ON WHAT I HAD BEEN DOING WRONG FOR THE PAST 15 YEARS
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As a racegoer,and regular reader of the forum,I find it surprising that some bookmaking teams are having to be told to smarten up their appearance.This should never be necessary,as they should automatically go to the track smartly dressed,it is called pride.
Smart appearance,and smart service with politeness wins the punters over.They shouldn't have to be told. Haven't times changed!! |
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reading this thread with interest
firstly , any legal challenge by any bookmaker represented organisation would turn all racecourses into enemies for the next 39 years , win or lose . right or wrong it would be suicide. on the foxy point re betfred which seems to be unimportant re lack of reply , I honestly haven't really noticed too much degree . will look out for |
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unbiased , the one's most noticeable are not bookmakers. the are those referred to as commission agents on here.
they appear in jeans and T shirts because that is their normal dress take the exchange away from them and they would be gone in a flash. they have no interest or respect for the industry. I agree entirely |
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AS ANYONE REGISTERED "RED HERRING RACING"WITH THE GAMBLING COMMISSION YET???????????
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Or 'Have It All Back Racing'
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Anyone who reads these posts who is a member of the ARB please consider coming along to the AGM on 2nd September. All members have had an invite and it would be great to get as many there as possible to fire as many difficult questions as possible at the directors. Full and frank discussions of all issues. Would be great to get a packed house.
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are there any GOOD reasons why on course bookmakers should be allowed to connect to betfair and b£tdaq ?
if yes , what are they ? |
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and the same goes for the northern bpa a.g.m. on 15th sept.
all directors will answer fully any and all questions asked. we expect a good and full attendance |
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I THINK THATS GUARANTEED
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adge - apart from the formal business what are the agenda items and scope of the meeting? Whilst its a good idea to get everyone to share views it would be of more interest to know what issues are being targeted and priorities.
Im a member of the northern bpa but im southern based so its way too far for me to attend unfortunately. Is it worth writing in to the directors before hand? |
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I'm sure the same goes for the Northern BPA Davy, the ARB welcome any written questions from members who cannot attend. They will be raised at the meeting. This was in the invite that went to EVERY member. Questions need to be in by 27th August.
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certainly , davy [ or e-mail ]. we set aside 90 minutes for an open forum of question and answer. all pre sent questions and views are always welcome from those unable to attend.
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ok thanks guys, ill send an email over to linda with my points.
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I really hope there is a good turn out at both these AGMs. Ever member has been personally invited. With all the issues at the moment causing such a lot of comment it would be very disappointing if the same discussions weren't aired at the AGM where the directors can answer their critics.
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MUGBOOKIES 17.51 POST SUMS IT ALL UP IN AT NUTSHELL.
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adge
I don't think many do give a toss about betfred at the moment last summer at haydock I pointed out to a couple off bookmakers how close to tatts the betfred mobile betting office was,niether took there head out of the computer,mark my words if nothing is done it will all end in tears for us. |
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FACT - YOU DO REALISE THAT EINSTEIN WAS REFERING TO WOLVERHAMPTON RACECOURSE WHEN HE SUGGESTED THAT THE DEFINITION OF INSANITY WAS GOING TO THE SAME PLACE...DOING THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER...AND EXPECTING A DIFFERENT SET OF RESULTS.
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FOXY - I DO THINK THAT FREDS ON COURSE TOTE DAYS ARE NUMBERED....ONCE THE MAJOR TRACKS REALISE THE POTENTIAL PROFITABILITY OF SP -10%...AND CONTRACTS EXPIRE...IN HOUSE BETTING OPERATIONS WILL BE THE NORM, WE'LL THEN GET THE OPPORTUNITY TO TEST SPORTSADVISORS ASSUMPTION THAT THE RACECOURSES ARE 'COMMITTED TO THE RING'.....LET'S HOPE THEY'RE A LITTLE BIT MORE COMMITTED THAN THEY WERE IN 2007 !!!!!!!
WASNOT/ADGE - PUT THIS ON THE AGENDA WILL YOU....ONE PITCH PER FIRM PER RING....NO RENTING/SHARING.....ONE REP ONLY WHO IS ACTUALLY A REP NOT ANOTHER BOOKMAKER....NO PITCH LINKING.....ESTABLISHED TATTS EACH WAY TERMS.....EXCHANGES USED AS A GUIDE ONLY....ALL HEDGING INTO THE RING.....I WONT BE HOLDING MY BREATH.  |
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Mugbookie, if you are a member of the ARB then submit a question and it will be read out and answered at the meeting. It would have to come from you mate, I can't submit on your behalf.
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WASNOT - I'M PLANNING TO ATTEND....AS YOU WELL KNOW THE ANSWER TO MY POINTS WILL BE ...NO...NO...DEFINITELY NO....YES,ONLY UNDER DURESS....NO....NO CHANCE WHATSOEVER.
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As regards the ARB AGM -will all the attendees fit in a telephone box ?
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a little fuller..no but wish we could enforce , no but are working with the gambling commission for very strict guidelines , agreed but too late , no if same firm but working on outlawing if not , too late , bookmaker has the choice sadly. breath deeply
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Adge - in your response im assuming you are saying that there is nothing that can be done about firms having more than 1 pick (and therefore they then link up). If that is the case it would be helpful if issues like that were put to bed and a statement made so that items such as pitch renting can be moved onto?
The issue of hedging in the ring will never be enforced legally, only way this can happen is if a group of bookmakers agree to hedge amongst themselves (liabilities shown as well), this theoretically could happen but would need to be led by some of the stronger layers imo. |
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ban exchange hedgeing, did it folkestone all agreeing few years back, if betting to better % is the aim, not sure EW terms are the answer, do Ireland hedge into exchanges their margins always better than ours?
is betting to better % the aim or pleasing sp returns for betting shops? not sure most on-course punters care that much about EW terms, and the few that like to moan mostly arbers |
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BARRY - THE BANNING OF EXCHANGE HEDGING WOULD ENABLE THE ON COURSE MARKET TO BECOME JUST THAT....THE ON COURSE MARKET....NOT THE EXCHANGE MARKET MINUS A TICK.
MORE ON COURSE PUNTERS THAN YOU APPRECIATE CARE ABOUT PLACE TERMS...ON RACES WHERE THE PLACE TERMS ARE 1/4 1234 THE PLACE TAKE IS OFTEN AROUND 80% OF THE WIN TAKE....ON 1/4 1.2 RACES THE PLACE TAKE IS USUALLY WELL BELOW 20% OF THE WIN TAKE.....DON'T TAKE THE PUNTERS FOR MUGS BARRY.....IT'S A MAJOR MISTAKE !!!!! |
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dont take the punters for mugs, I'll bet 110% a 1/6th you bet next door 120% 1/4 no contest
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ban exchange hedgeing
it all goes quiet |
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MUG,ANY CHANCE OF U PUTTING YOURSELF UP FOR ELECTION,THE ONLY THING I DONT AGREE WITH U IS THE GLOBAL WARMING ISSUE WHICH WILL NEVER BE ON THE AGENDA OF THE NBPA
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