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Jockey Club Racecourse ~ revised each way terms ~ ALL CHANGE
Jockey Club Racecourse ~ revised each way terms ~ ALL CHANGE
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Replies: 254
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factmachine - i dont see my role negotiating with tracks on the price of tea. Thanks for raising it.
i do see issues like marketing fees and multipliers as well as betting as future areas to negotiate upon. it wouldn't help, in my view - were we to charge with bayonets fixed on an issue most agree needs their assistance. even if their assistance is seen by some as setting 'precedents' |
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what are we going to do about the tote betting joints that are creeping either in or very near to the betting rings,they don't just seem happy with the hand held monitors walking around the bar areas.
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the last night meeting at hamilton having purchased our badges we were still refused entry until the general public were allowed in ...this cannot be right surely ...however as it was ladies night two ladies with a rail of tops and coats were allowed in as well as the burger boy ice cream man and bog cleaner ffs !!!!!!
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AND ALSO WHAT YA FEEL TO IGNORE IS THIS ...THE TOTE MOBILES ARE MORE LETHAL THAN JOCKY WIOLLSON EVER IMAGINED
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SOMEBODY HAS STARTED A THREAD CRITICISING GREAT YARMOUTHS CARD ON TUESDAY .........THE TOTE WILL BE BETTING TO 5% A RUNNER
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SPORTS,IT MUST BE DIFFERENT DOWN SOUTH,BUT HERE UP NORTH ALL NEGOTIATIONS START WITH A CUP OF TEA,BUT AT 2 QUID A GO ON THE RACECOURSES NO WONDER WE ENDED UP WITH THE DEALS WE DID,YOU COULD PUT YOURSELF UP AS THE SOUTHERN TEA NEGOTIATER THAT WOULD BE A START,BUT KEEP YOUR BAYONET SHARPENED FOR THE NEXT BATTLE.
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SPORTSADVISOR - I have previously posted that marketing fees and entrance price badge fee multipliers are regressive for on course bookmaking, the expenses involved betting on music nights are a prime example of this.Pitch renting/sharing/place term abuses have become highly contentious issues,with some previously highly regarded firms/individuals seeking maximum advantage, often to the detriment of their fellow layers.It's interesting that on your list of 'bigger issues' you placed debit cards ahead of fees, you'll have to enlighten me there. For most bookmakers the ever increasing fees....GC/LEVY/AGT/MARKETING/BADGE.....combined with the increasingly competitive environment...in house betting operations/internet accessibility.... are the overriding cause for concern.By the way, I am happy to let any bookmaker know who I am, just don't see why it's an issue?
Wassy/Wolf j - Outrageous the way we are sometimes treated considering the contribution we make. Foxy - I fear that this encroachment on the ring by the tote is the start of things to come....in house betting ! |
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i disagree fundamentally with your stance. Whoever you are. I've been involved with many negotiations with tracks. if you didn't know that you're duly informed
I wan't involved in the commercial deals, but rest assured I will be from this point on such as marketing and multipliers, and I warrant I'm more effective than most who've represented you so far. I don't view tracks as the arch enemy, nor do i think that kind of view is at all helpful or wise. As for tea at 2 pounds, - doesn't sound dear to me Perhaps at York, if you bet there, you can introduce yourself instead of this anonymous bullshit? Geoff |
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FACT - AN AWFUL LOT OF TROUBLE HAS BEEN CAUSED OVER CUPS OF TEA...I SEEM TO RECALL THAT WE FOUGHT FOR AND LOST ONE OF OUR COLONIES OVER 'THE EXPENSE OF A CUP OF TEA'.....SOME PLACE CALLED BOSTON IN THE AMERICAS I BELIEVE.
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SPORTS - FACT... AT YORK.
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GEOFF MY NAME IS TIM BROWN AND YOUR WELCOME TO HAVE A CUP OF TEA(AS LONG AS U PAY "£2 DOESNT SOUND DEAR TO ME"
)WITH ME.GEOFF NEVER EVER EVER UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF A CUP OF TEA! |
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IF AFTER TALKING TO GEOFF,I MIGHT GIVE HIM SOME PG TIPS
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PS THATS NOT COCKNEY RHYMING SLANG FOR ANYTHING ELSE!
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earl grey is likely to be the preferred tea for geoff
 i hear it will be available in all Warrington branches of Aldi very soon |
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IF I GO TO YORK AND SEE 2 MONKEYS AT A TABLE WILL IT BE GEOFF AND TIM
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its obvious both sportsadvisor and mugbookie care about the future of the game they may have different ideas about how to improve things but at least they do care.
good luck to both. |
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Foxy, JW, god help us if you are correct about the best rm.
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How will this affect the odds shows for off-course bookies? If the prices are now coming from on-course bookies betting at 1/5 the odds, off-course bookies betting to traditional e/w terms will have to choose one of: losing money on the e/w bets, altering their e/w terms as well, or ignoring the live shows from the course.
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I do enjoy a nice cup of tea. Many of the tea rooms around SUnningdale charge a lot more than £2 - so I look forward to the North and the better value
I can be located quite easily at York behind the grandstand underneath the orange umbrellas. I welcome all friendly Bookies for a glass Arbers of any variety can stay around the front and bet freely from 11am. I'll join you later |
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Mr Magoo - off course industry at standard place terms already receiving shows at non standard. Part of the problem, but not what I represent.
I believe in symbiotic arrangement between punters, Bookmakers and tracks. and service |
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Arena on board now,BDH stood on the tyne bridge as we speak!
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With respect Geoff your last post comes across as pure rhetoric with you appearing to want to 'cherry pick' your areas of concern and those you wish to see improved whilst leaving other glaring anomalies to others. I trust we are all agreed that those in positions of influence regardless of whether they represent Rails or the Ring should pursue the views of the majority of those they represent at all times even if that conflicts with their own personal views.
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DEMOCRAT,IF ONLY THAT WAS THE CASE,HENCE WHY THERE WILL NEVER BE AGREEMENT AMONGST ONCOURSE BOOKMAKERS.
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Ribero, R/P article regarding Arena/Arc not 100% they will be discussing the situation.
I fully support standardised E/W terms. but why do we have to follow betting shop or even on-line place terms? neither would last 5 mins without Fobt's and casino games. UK horse racing represents about 20% of their GP while it represents 100% of our turnover/profit |
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Barry - irrelevent to our trading difficulties what they get up to in shops. It's about our custom and customers
Democrat. it' not cherry picking - but where would you have me start? There are several issues which if you read my earlier comments you will see I wish to address, inc fees, renting etc. If we war on tracks on something that's good for us 'collectively' - where does that leave us in relations with tracks who could squash us out of business (ascot - 4th floor eg) We have to trust is my point, and be 'on the inside'. Not beligerent. I'm sure you see what I am saying. Am I for racetracks- 'rails' or any other faction. No I'm against arbers and arbing, renting, high fees, tracks impingieng on our businesses' without mind to the effect on their own business. and I'm for the customer. We are not Ryanair There's no rhetorice here - not from me,I shoot from the hip |
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no e in rhetoric...
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^ Not the only one Geoff. I thought your old man paid a fortune for your education!
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I hear and until proved differently believe what you say Geoff. A key requirement is to keep all stakeholders involved and giving them the opportunity to have an input before, in some cases unsupported, proposals become a fait accompli ( oops mixed the plural with the singular there - sorry ). A major concern that currently exists is that racecourses or at least some of them think the bookmakers' representatives are expressing the views of the majority when that is clearly not the case. If, in rare instances, the majority view is being put forward then it is purely by accident. In summary there is not only a need for the correction of the issues that are currently being abused but the putting in place of a democratic system enabling the expression and taking on board of views and in which everyone can have confidence.
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I think leaders have been too negative with racetracks for too long. It's little wonder they're ambivolent. In my talks with JCR and others, their frustration shines through like a beacon.
It's plain that despite the majority (not all but majority) are in favour of change- yet leaders are adamant tracks cannot impose something we desire collectively. It is, in my view, a ridiculous and negative stance. In no way is this a precedent for them to tell us 'you can't take less that £50' a bet in the future. Engage with them, or they will polish us off- and I wouldn't blame them and if you've leaders determined they won't be dictated to - remove them as leaders |
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JMDC
Not only did Dada rob Ladbrokes to pay for my finishing school, but he also left me 20 million in unmarked bills - a private jet, 3 hotels and shares in valuejet. Aren't I lucky? |
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I believe one particular BPA feels very strongly on the issue of certain individuals and the need to remove them in order that the industry can move forward, meaning you are not alone Geoff in this regard.
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I am aware of a number of complaints from sensible and long established firms who do not feel their views are represented- nor consulted before actions are discussed or taken
It may be time for more progressive leaders and thinking |
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Geoff - Reading your posts on here I would say im broadly in line with you that we have to work with the racecourses.
So how and when are these issues : marketing fee, multipliers, tote booths, pitch renting etc going to be dealt with? It took 5 years to negotiate on the multiplier with a result that I think most would agree is unsustainable in the long run. From this very thread there are many examples of discourteous behaviour towards bookmakers on the track - these issues never seem to get resolved. |
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The way forward Davy is to act like their partner in business, get them to understand our business and issues, share info. And begin to understand their issues as well. We stop arguing the toss with our narrow views - exchange data with them - so they can see the depressed numbers. Ditch dinosaurs as leaders we can't we can't. Yes we can - and we must - because the current model is demonstrably failing
What's the alternative? War with them on everything, challenge legally. We lose anyway- of that I'm totally certain |
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agree totaaly with geoff its time to move forward leave the old days and dinosaurs where they belong in the past ...and work together as one for a brighter future ..... and by the way geoff did you have a phone conversation mid afternoon friday with a couple of prominent northern firms ??? just wondering ..
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Geoff - I understand the need to behave professional like a partner. What is unclear is the remit and agreed priorities e.g. im supportive of the new e/w rules others clearly aren't, i do not believe in pitch renting or multiple picks others do, i believe the multiplier/concert fees are a major issue as well as marketing fee.
Surely these issues need to be agreed by the bookmakers before progress can be made with the courses? |
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whats missing is the engagement with firms. Although in this regard I have sympathy with the RG's and KJ's of this world- ever tried to gain consensus from such a dispirate group?
eg We will get top layers like barry dennis announcing 'yes i'm in favour' and then 'but i might challenge' the way forward- like it or not, we need strong leadership- with decisions made for the benefit of the community and with mind to it's customers. Not what's good for me myself and I too much of that |
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SPORTSADVISOR - YOU HAVE ZERO CHANCE OF GAINING A CONSENUS ON JUST ABOUT ANYTHING AMONGST ON COURSE BOOKMAKERS.YOU ARE OBVIOUSLY NOT A REGULAR READER OF THE BOOKMAKING DISCUSSIONS ON THIS FORUM.IF YOU WERE, YOU WOULD REALISE THAT THERE ARE SOME INDIVIDUALS WHO CELEBRATED THE DEALS AND THEIR CONTENT,NOT JUST BECAUSE IT SECURED THEIR TENURE , BUT BECAUSE THEY BELIEVED THAT THE INCREASE IN EXPENSES AND THE ODIOUS MARKETING FEE WOULD DRIVE THE SMALLER BOOKS OUT OF BUSINESS ! THESE SAME INDIVIDUALS OPENLY DECLARE THAT THEY 'NEED' MULTIPLE,LINKED UP GOOD PITCHES TO 'SURVIVE' AND REGULARLY ENGAGE IN PITCH RENTING/SHARING AMONG THEIR 'FRIENDS'.BELIEVE ME, ANY IDEAS THAT YOU HAVE REGARDING MAKING DECISIONS 'FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE COMMUNITY' AND NOT FOR 'WHATS GOOD FOR ME MYSELF AND I' WILL BE QUICKLY SHOT DOWN IN GREAT BIG FLAMES.I WISH YOU WELL BECAUSE I ACTUALLY AGREE WITH MOST OF YOUR AGENDA....THE PROBLEM YOU HAVE IS THAT SOME INDIVIDUALS ARE SIMPLY NOT PREPARED TO BUDGE ONE INCH AGAINST THEIR OWN, NARROW SELF INTEREST.
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The fact that sportsadvisor believes that RG and KJ have acted on behalf of the majority of their members shows that many of his views belong to cloud cuckoo world.Has he not noted that many of the practises that he and the overwhelming majority of bookmakers deplore are indulged in by KJ.These are in no way connected with the demands of the racecoures.This clearly brings into question of sportsadvisers judgement and undermines some of his sounder views.
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