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16 Aug 13
12:42
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In summary then clued up regular punters have to pay to protect the naive punters and as a consequence bookmaker margins will almost inevitably increase.
All I can say is don't moan when all you have left are the £1 each way punters. Come racing! |
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1/5 the odds 16 to 21 runners is pretty pathetic,offering your customers worse terms than they can get in a bookies or online? COME RACING!!!
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Well done JCR - a move in the right direction at last and a positive step towards the redemption rather than the demise of the Ring. The JCR document is well presented in a way that shows all views have been considered and judged in a pragmatic and well balanced manner. The JCR should be applauded for adopting essential consultation and communication practices ; an example that others would do well to follow.
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The problem as I see it is that margins are bound to go up. I may be cynical however I think that is the main driver for the changes.
It is like customers moaning that sometimes they get charged £2.50 for a pint and sometimes £2.70 so to remove confusion the bar owner brings in controls to ensure that everyone gets charged £3 without fail. He has removed the ambiguity but not necessarily to the benefit of the customer. I'm actually prefer the place terms to be worse than the shops as it leads to better win prices on course. I suppose the bottom line is that time will tell however I would go pretty short odds that the average over round per runner will be higher after this change. Of course it may be that with ever declining turnover and increasing costs that this move is need to boost margins. If that is the case then it should be made clear. Plenty of other businesses have had to make similar moves in the current economic climate. |
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worse each way terms but guaranteed better win prices on which the 1/5th is calculated , mmm , which brings the place part to about the same.
i'm actually getting bored with this continued argument though |
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I hope you're right BB but I doubt it.
btw since you last went racing a pint of beer is now up to £3.90p |
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Banned-Banks,I think you will find many of the books will be win only in most races arbing is the only game in town for these books so it wont affect the win only backers
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Some will be more competitive than others as is the case now. Despite your take on it B B the imposition of consistent terms has to be a good thing, protecting the naïve punter and somewhat perversely also doing a favour to the layers who have not digressed from the 'standard' terms.
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Some will be more competitive than others as is the case now. Despite your take on it B B the imposition of consistent terms has to be a good thing, protecting the naïve punter and somewhat perversely also doing a favour to the layers who have not digressed from the 'standard' terms.
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£3.90 a pint adge ? Not where you drink or even at the elite outlet that you patronise at Kings Lynn !!!!
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1600-100 each way a horse thats 17.5-18.0 and 4.2- 4.3 a place is about right in the current climate tbh.
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In the long term it will not the slightest difference to the ordinary
midweek punter, in a few years there will be hardly any paying customers midweek. |
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so why do we get isolated incidents of 1/9 123 when big odds on fav ?
this contravened the code surely ? |
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It did big boss, one or two complete mickey takers, bad apples so to speak.
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I hope you're right BB but I doubt it.
btw since you last went racing a pint of beer is now up to £3.90p I wasn't referring to racecourse beer prices as you well know. I go racing on a very regular basis and have been to nearly every track in the UK so I am a keen racegoer who knows things well from the punters side of things. |
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Banned-Banks,I think you will find many of the books will be win only in most races arbing is the only game in town for these books so it wont affect the win only backers
If that is the case then I will be delighted. The more who go win only the better for me. |
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Some will be more competitive than others as is the case now. Despite your take on it B B the imposition of consistent terms has to be a good thing, protecting the naïve punter and somewhat perversely also doing a favour to the layers who have not digressed from the 'standard' terms.
I agree fully with what you say however I am neither a naive punter nor a bookmaker so I lose out. As with all things like this we naturally look at things from our own selfish point of view. |
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Don't be too sceptical in this case please B B - give it a chance then express your findings. This is/was an element of on-course bookmaking that needed addressing - and there are others !
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I'll see how it looks when I go racing at JCR tracks plus as I said above a look at the over round per runner before and after the changes will provide the answer.
It'll be easy to assess the impact because non JCR tracks will not have the same restrictions so a direct comparison can be made without worrying about other economic factors etc. If it ends up with more books going win only and the rest betting to increased over rounds to standard place terms then everyone should be happy. I'm just not convinced yet though! |
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When there are long odds on shots - most will now bet win only.
In the rest of the marginal races e.g. 8 runner races etc, the books will just run the ew at losses like they did before these changes were allowed, it might make them bet smarter but I doubt it - the increased expenses dont seemed to have improved margins. Lets just get this rolled out across all tracks and let proper bookmaking commence. |
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why do you believe it will only be in place on JCR courses.
I believe all others will fall into line very quickly. would make the whole thing a nonsense if they didn't |
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it's a positive step. We should get behind it. It's progress, even if some would prefer the low margin alternative.
The ring is thoroughly devoid of choice and become boring. As businessmen we need to stop blaming everyone else and get on with the change JCR are not the arch villain here - they're doing us a favour be exertin the control many of us want. I'm tired of betting to some fiddlers pathetic mnargins Geoff Banks |
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Sportsadvisor - I dont see this improving margins. Before the GC margins were poor, the people who chose to abuse the ew terms saw it as an opportunity.
Betfair/off course competition, plus too many books chasing too little money will mean we will always have poor margins. Perhaps JCR should make us bet to 2% a runner - that would be more helpful. |
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Progress apparently equates to taking more money off punters!
If that is needed to sustain the ring then fine but please don't make out that it is some sort of altruistic move to help punters when that clearly isn't the case. |
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BB the punters wont be worse off !!
the win only punters will get the same or better prices ,as more books bet win only ,and pull the b0ll0x off them the place punters will get the same or better prices at 1/5 th ( of admittedly slightly smaller win prices ) |
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DM I hope you are right.
Clearly some of your colleagues don't agree with you though. |
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how are the likes of jocky going to manage now ??
go even bigger prices of course |
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he bets more win only now because of all the abuse he has received from all sides so won't make any difference to him
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think the interesting ones will be the likes of hazel and geraghty who bet 1/5 odds on 14 runner handicaps when 1/4 odds still gives a better return than the win percentage
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Imo whatever the rights and wrongs of the argumemt a dangerous precedent being set in allowing the racecourse to dictate the terms of business to racecourse bookmakers.Surely this is just going to make the ring even more boring and bland with all bookmakers displaying virtually the same odds and terms albeit there will problably be a win only market and an each way market may as well just build one big joint in the middle of the ring displaying these odds and each bookmaker take a pitch in there.
The customers should have choice the owners of a big shopping centre coulnt say to Argos , Pc world etc these Tvs , Computers etc must be sold at a standard price . The football premier league has 20 runners but the each way terms are 1/3 odds places 1-2 . The championship has 24 runners the place terms are 1/4 odds places 1-2-3 why the difference? well obviously the premier league only has a handful of possible winnners out of the 20 and the bookmakers dont want to be laying hugely inflated place terms on a 3rd placed team . Do the punters complain ? Does the Rcing post complain? |
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Those that lowered the place terms for no commercial reason other than the fact that they were allowed to should look at themselves in the mirror.
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100% SHADDER.had 2 years of gold flag and now alter if place below win %.record slips,record take,record profit.different crowd, want service and a win price.decided by people living in the past or not betting with own money.in bad ew races will end up with 2 shows.1/3,5,8,8,10,10,20,20 and 1/3,8,20,20,33,33,20,200.punters wont know whats going on.
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oh yes they will the win only book punters will all be refused e/w
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yes REGIT , we have noticed that you offer poorer place terms.
what we haven't noticed is that you offer bigger win prices [ bad ew races apart ] than anybody else |
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The 1st Sep fast approaches - will the BRMs be the enforcers of JCR and what measures will be taken with any miscreants ?
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Democrat, dont be silly ,when do you see them in the ring after pitch allocation? Oh sorry , to tell you to take the mush down when its still raining!!!
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how fast will the RCA be in bringing all other courses into line with this outcome ?
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As a mover and shaker I'm sure you will tell us adge. So how was Ripon ? The Mecca of the East Coast awaits you next week !!
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BRM, so great for:
1) Smart Dress code enforced - 1/10 2) People working other bookmaker pitches - 0/10 3) Getting paid and claiming expense - 9/10 4) Being there for the occasional betting dispute - 2/10 5) Making sure no betfair umbrellas are up at Worcester - 0/10 |