Ged, from the username was not sure who portrack was. I had left Frank by 1965 or around then, iwas "A ROLLING STONE" didnt overstay my welcome in any yard i worked,but never stayed more than a year,sometimes less,no regrets ,Many Good days ,a few pretty bad ones, but many wonderful memories, that i have been pleased to share with this forum. I was with "Towser" Gosden,at Lewes.Roy Whiston at Market Drayton, and Harry Bell at Hawick ,as well as others.

I do remember another story of his about going down to liverpool with a coloured lad that worked in the yard, and him being called a JB.

Mentioning Althrey Don brings back a bad memory for me. I had a large bet on him ridden by Piggott at even money in the 60s, only to be caught near the line by Breasley on Daylight Robbery. I certainly considered it robbery!

Whitwhitlaw. Thank you once again for your most accurate of information,  My wife of 42 years wonders how i remember such detail ,when i cant remember things that have happened in the recent past, Racing memories and men a breed apart only explanation i can give.

TambourineMan.     8 Oct 12 13:56 

guardamar
Fantastic story about Frank Carr....always thought he was a sharpie...what was your cut?

Re Kamundu in the '69 Hunt Cup...he beat Lorenzaccio who went on to beat Nijinski in the '70 Champion Stakes.
Backed in from 100/8 to 7/1..Frank must have been laughing all the way back to Malton.
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Not as much as (owner) John Banks.

That june day in 69 i was approached by a good friend at school who said he was going "down town" and suggested we had a bet,having just been topped up by my grandma i presume? we got hold of a paper and stumbled upon the big handicap that was the royal hunt cup,not really knowing any better i suggested lester.s mount so i gave him £1 (biggest bet ever)and off i went to play cricket that afternoon for the under 15's and forgot all about it,i can't have gone into bat much before 6.45? i seem to recall that was the time for sports report on radio 2? anyhow i was out 2nd ball and as i came back in suitably fed up the sports report music rocked up on someone's radio with several headlines rounded off by those immortal words "lester piggott wins the royal hunt cup at royal ascot!" The world all of a sudden felt a much better place and the slippery slope began,lol.Even though it was a colossal win and do remember being slightly dissapointed with the sp as it was something like 16's in the daily mail betting forecast,but felt like a millionaire when my pal paid me out (less a few bob in tax)the next day in the first class of the day,needless to say the money didn't last long!
Incidentally my partner in crime's dad had a horse or two with a little trainer i don't think has been mentioned on here yet-Vic Mitchell.
I also know Grahame Liles well,he owned that decent dual purpose horse Aleron with John Quinn,he was an oncourse bookmaker who sold out fairly soon after the buying and selling began.

Vic Mitchell and Vernon Cross were the 2 trainers my aunt used to follow. I don't know why - I think she must have noticed them having the occasional winner going in at a big price, and took a fancy to their horses. She used to do cross doubles and trebles, and had a betting account in the days of Copes - hence the hoard of Copes year books with the lists of winners of big races going back years, and the "Giants of the Past" series featuring horses like Isinglass, Beeswing and Pretty Polly. My dad just laughed about it and thought that Cross "only trains donkeys". I remember horses of his like Asmunda, Balitangle, Past Lover (who did win at Epsom one day), Silver Salver - who occasionally would place at 20s or 33s. He did train a little horse called Eric though (for one of the infamous Ismays), who got the better of Lester on a big grey horse (Irvine?) to win a Chester Cup - I think 7lb claimer Alan Cressy rode - and was useful as a hurdler too.

Vic Mitchell trained Stardao I think, who was probably one of his better ones.

i remember my pal's dad having a winner at york in the mid 70's at the september meeting i think,it was called something like Big liar or Billy liar i think,trained by mitchell.

W.R.Whiston trained on his farm at Market Drayton, Shropshire, where he was also involved with cattle dealing. Originally trained by Capt C Boyd-Rochfort, French Fox - a gelding who had shown no form in 4 races on the flat - was bought at the Ascot sales in June for 320 guineas. As a yearling he had originally cost 1,800 guineas. On Thursday, October 20th 1960, French Fox - having won his first 3 races over hurdles, his first being on September 1 at Newton Abbot  - completed a four-timer when winning the Edgehill 3-y-o hurdle at Straford-on-Avon, giving owner Mr A.Maiden a double on the day. Whiston landed a treble that day: Fresh Winds and French Fox, both ridden by T.Brookshaw, and Vuldon, ridden by S.Mellor. He then won for a fifth time before being beaten into 3rd at Haydock Park by Comandeer and Whitebeam. French Fox was scratched from all engagements (dead) on Jul 8th 1965, the day Track Spare became the first horse in Britain to win from the stalls.

I remember Fresh Winds leading in the Grand National one year. I might have had my 2 bob on him.

He was also found doped in his box in Roy Whiston's yard in Nov '61, before an intended race at Uttoxeter. Can guardamar enlighten us, I wonder?

Here's an article about it from the Schenectady Gazette (- the paper of choice if the Sporting Life was sold out)

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1917&dat=19611128&id=HnwuAAAAIBAJ&sjid=rIkFAAAAIBAJ&pg=6176,4728192

In the 60's/70's the Whiston stable was very powerful, when Roy died, Colin trained but the name always appeared as W R Whiston in the papers.Roy Edwards was stable jockey then later Dave Cartwright, but they used all the top riders and many other locals, Freddie Dixon, Roddie Reid, Roy Davies and Robin Langley were a few I recall. Rips Lyric, Copper Canyon, Colley Mill, Pernie, Dumbutt are a few that bring back great memories. Now I'm laying winners with 20 yards to go and watching Richard and FCUKING Judy on Loose Women between races.

Whitwhitlaw. Forgot to ask in my post could i trouble you to bring up that race in my post at Cheltenham

Here's an obit for Derek Ancil, who died in 2010, aged 85:-


Derek Ancil rode 11 times in the Grand National, coming second on Merryman II in 1961. The National fences were then much tougher, negotiated by jockeys with cork skullcaps, which sometimes came off in falls, and no back-protectors; among them was Ancil's greatest friend, Michael Scudamore.

With his yard only 12 miles from Oxford, Ancil also welcomed undergraduates as riders-out; a few of them became successful race-riders, all became imbued with his enthusiasm for steeplechasing.

He described Knucklecracker as "a brilliant jumper who stayed forever; we won very easily. The old horse was not a good feeder, but when he was given a bottle of Guinness, he ate up. A lorry would turn up each month and we had a free order. I dare say a fair bit went down the throats of the lads."

Derek Ivor Ancil was born on July 28 1924 in Surrey. For generations his family had farmed at Launton, near Bicester. His father, Harry, served in the Oxfordshire Hussars yeomanry with Winston Churchill before the Great War; his older brother, Conroy, an officer in the Fleet Air Arm, was killed in 1943; the other, Basil, became a successful amateur jockey.

From an early age Derek loved hunting. He remembered often staying out with the Bicester till the hounds went home, falling asleep on his pony as it delivered him safely back to the farm.

As a rising amateur living with his father, he began riding for Ronnie Horton, who came to live at the Ancil farm. Horton, a steelmaker, had done work for MI6 while on business trips to Czechoslovakia before the Second World War, and subsequently his sole desire was to settle in the countryside and train racehorses. When he began training at Middleton Stoney, nearby, Ancil became his professional jockey.

When Horton died he left everything to Ancil, who took over the yard in 1959, quickly winning the friendship of several long-term owners. Among them was Leslie Marler, who owned Knucklecracker. Apart from his Hennessy success, Ancil won the 1955 Scottish Grand National on Bar Point and the 1958 Grand Sefton at Aintree on Tiberetta. In 1961, after the jockey Gerry Scott broke his leg, Ancil was chosen to ride Merryman II, the previous year's winner of the National. His most horrific ride was on The Finn, favourite at Hurst Park; galloping into the first fence he realised the horse could not see it: he gave Ancil an appalling fall and was found to have been doped.

Many racing enthusiasts from Oxford gravitated towards Ancil's ever-hospitable yard and dining-table (his martinis were famous). Some, such as Judge Sir Michael Connell, became successful point-to-point riders. One, Brough Scott, became a leading professional. Another, John Myhill, became a successful trainer of steeplechasers in Australia.

Several of the undergraduates also rode with the Oxford University Draghounds and, in 1964, Ancil hosted a Christmas jockeys' meet for the Drag. Instead of the usual half-dozen or so, the 120-strong field included many racing personalities. Among them was Willie Robinson, who was on that year's Grand National winner, Team Spirit.

After an epileptic driver mowed down the string, killing a lad, Ancil bought Thorpe Mandeville Manor near Banbury, which he thought a quieter place to train. Winners continued, though not so prolifically; his lifetime total was more than 200.

Ancil, a hands-on trainer, ready to school the most difficult horses himself, gave up his licence in 1989. As he retired he told Sporting Life: "Jump racing has always been a sport; nobody has made any money out of it. I believe you shouldn't get involved if you think otherwise. As for the bookmakers, racing without them would be like a morgue."

Thereafter he continued with his farming, golf, flying (he had a pilot's licence till late in life), dogs, a few mares and foals and entertaining his numerous friends. In 2002, 33 of his riders-out organised a tribute dinner for him at which Sir Edward Cazalet, QC, was the main speaker.

Derek Ancil's wife, Yvonne, died in 1995, and he married, secondly, Patricia Mahony, who survives him.

Ged Thanks for that most interesting info re Derek Ancil. I remember Mr Horton very well,he used be a bit like Henry Cecil loved his roses and would often be seen picking them in and around the yard ,as you rightly said where  he lived ,i remember the chaufaur driven Roller arriving each morning to take him to Birmingham where he conducted his business. Yes i had ridden Knucklecracker a fair few times ,we used to work them on an Aerodrome i think if memory serves me well it was called  Kidlington. A hell of a place when one could take a "tug" no where to go too much space. The only problem with that yard was at that time the main Banbury to Oxford road used to go through the middle of the village ,past a pub ,ithink they called it The Ansell Arms (might not have that name  right) Nowdays they  have by-passed the place with a motorway.  But in those days it was a nightmare. I remember three horses walking along beingstruck two were killed,my fellow Fen Street was the third we survived.

On Saturday Nov 11 1961, Josh Gifford, riding Fen Street at Cheltenham, won the Bob Wigney H’Cap Hurdle (not the George Duller) at 100/8 having been forecast in the morning betting as 3/1 fav. (Scottish Memories won the next race, The Mackeson Gold Cup.)
Is this the race you mean?

George Duller - now there's an old jockey who deserves a mention. He was a hurdles specialist. Won the Imperial Cup 7 times (when it was the premier hurdles race in Britain), including 3 years in a row on Trespasser (1920,21,22). Won the first Champion Hurdle on Blaris(1927). He also competed in Le Mans in 1926 (partnering Frank Clement, who'd won it in '24), but they failed to finish. He was one of the "Bentley Boys" when Bentley were one of the top motor-racing outfits in the 1920s.

Ribero, that Billy Liar of Vic Mitchell's, correct me if I'm wrong but that horse was disqualified from first place at York back around 75/76 when Taffy Thomas rode one of his bulldozing finishes. Billy Liar had been a big punt from any price into around 4s. One of Ken Payne's was awarded the race, much to his delight, as he'd had a big price tickle. It must have been just about the last good tickle he had. Back from Oz tomorrow.

St Mungo another one of VM's?

Ged, Mitchell might have had Stardao at 2-y-o but he was with Carr after that.
Saint Mungo was a northern sprint stalwart, won one or two every year, usually under Frankie Durr.
I remember Michell having the last race winner at Beverley around 70 with a horse called Punchy at 33-1. I think it was Dennis Buckle's only winner that season. The layers went home happy that day. Precious Will was another decent one for him , landed a touch at York around 1970 at big prices under Frankie Durr.

forgotmyusername, he died at Chepstow riding Pernie for Whiston, but as you say his memorial race is run at Uttoxeter