"soccer" LMAO

Black Caviar is a good handicapper which is all you need to be to dominate in Australia.

As for stud fees are you sure she will be fertile. She is very manly. Big ugly thing.

ColeWorldNoBlanket - Forgot how good the aussies are at 'football'..not

I believe the last time Australia and England met in "football" the result was?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiO6cK4XUuI

talk about foot in mouth disease PMSL

The really sad part is... you guys try so @#$%ing hard to be good at football, but your so @#$%ing bad it's quite funny!

I spent time in Australia. Now re realising just how thick they are!

Keep relying on ratings... just like Frankel...

Ratings mean nothing if your too chicken to back it up on the pitch or racetrack.

Frankel has had plenty of chances to race an 10f, yet they keep him to a mile because they are afraid he will bottle it, just like the English FootBall team.

Must admit, don't know much about soccer...or England, but did see their last game. Goodness!

Saw the movie ZULU a long time ago...good to see something "good" came out of it all

for the Old Dart many years on

The English football team is a running joke really, even with the fans. We dont really get upset anymore!!

But at least we have quality racehorses.

If the BHB  handicapers were that good why would they work for the BHB on an average wage ?
They could sit at home in their pyjamas & win fortunes on Betfair ..

The form is there for all to see. If it wasnt them doing the job it would another.

On the flip side, if they where so far off the mark they why arent they rumbled all the time? Of course we need form lines where horses are running against each other and with the Australian/UK connection it can be ambiguous the gulf in class.

Yet we can only go on what we see. Black Caviar struggled to stay the 6 furlong at Ascot and is on what we saw, no better than a 120 rated animal. Over 5 furlongs i think she would be much better.

Yep Choisir was more impressive than than Black Caviar., but he ran over the correct trip of 5f.

Black Caviar should have done the same, but unfortunately Moody had been gobbing off that the horse was not just an out and out sprinter which she evidently is. Moody was trying to draw the gap between Frankel over a mile. She probably could still win in Australia at 7f but not in Europe. She would get mullered by horses rated less than 120.

The difference is megsy..........Frankel CAN sprint and would destroy any other horse on the planet at the moment.........even a quarter horse.Sub 9 second furlongs on his workouts being the norm since he was 18 months old.hth

Btw and he can still do it and sustain it over 5.6 7 and further if he was ever asked.

GT...the difference is your middle distance horses also run for a higher prize money than sprinters, fcukwit immamug whats to argue to suit his stupidity.

Megsy take a look at YOUR forum.hth m8

so ou thinks last 3 starts in australia as a middle distance runner, look at the purses. purses trainers of sprinters would dream of.


26 weeks
3-23 FLEM
02-Nov-10   3200M Slow6 (MELB CUP G1) No age restriction Hcp Limit 49.0 $6,175,000 ($450,000) Steven Arnold (2) 56.0 Rtg:124 1st AMERICAIN (USA) 54.5: 2nd MALUCKYDAY (NZ) 51.0: 3-26.87, Margin 3.3L 7th at 1200m, 6th at 800m, 3rd at 400m, Betting $3.10/$3F. Pulled hard throughout. 
1-12 FLEM
30-Oct-10   2000M Dead4 (MACKINNON G1) No age restriction WFA $1,002,500 Steven Arnold (8) 58.0 Rtg:122 2nd DESCARADO (NZ) 58.0: 3rd GINGA DUDE (NZ) 59.0: 2-4.92, Margin 3.8L 4th at 1200m, 4th at 800m, 3rd at 400m, Betting $1.65/$1.60/$1.60F. 
1-10 M V 
23-Oct-10   2040M Dead4 (COX PLATE G1) 3YO & Up WFA $3,050,000 ($1,850,000) Steven Arnold (5) 57.5 2nd ZIPPING 59.0: 3rd WHOBEGOTYOU 59.0: 2-7.45, Margin 1.3L 2nd at 1200m, 2nd at 800m, 1st at 400m, Betting $1.45/$1.50F.

You can throw as many insults at me as you like mugsy and have done and was the first to do so but it's water off a duck's back to me and would be like Luke Nolen telling me I had a brain fade. Please try, just give it your best shot and have a go at following how the topics went and you might now see why your subsequent post was totally irrelevant.

The initial statement from No_BS was:

Didn't know we used ratings, we certainly don't put any credibility in your's.

We judge by wins and prize money and she has both, when the Cotton Wool Kid decides to play with the other horse instead of just his own then we will see.

Read that back to yourself a couple of times, especially the bold part until it sinks in and then take a few deep breaths, do a few neck rolls and stretches and make sure you are well and truly psyched up for this next part that I am about to copy and paste, because it still means exactly the same today as it did when I first posted it.

The cut & paste part:

As for prize money, Black Caviar had won 22 races and averages £177,906 a win as opposed to Frankel's 11 wins averaging £151,857, so not really a massive difference especially when you consider BC won £283k compared to Frankel's £198k for their RA wins. Incidentally, BC has only won more than that £283k in about 5 of her 22 races and one of those was the same race twice.

What part of that was too taxing for you to understand? You then go spouting off about races like the Melbourne Cup being worth $6m+ in total and the value of other such races, all of which is irrelevant to Black Caviar seeing as she will never run in those races. Frankel's Queen Anne win was only worth £198k (and that's the figure for that race alone and not the average of his races won by the way) but there is little point in me pointing out any races that have more prize money in respects to him if he was never going to race in them, is there?

You also make the schoolboy error of listing the total prize money and come up with two different formulas by saying:

That’s $20,725,200 ave  $2,960,742 per race if im correct

Now your super star Frankel,  what has he won on average???

That’s right a mere( £ 198000 = $ 307,743 ) per win

Now unless the winners of those races you list like the Melbourne Cup get every penny of the $6,200,000 (which they don't) then all of your other numbers after that become totally meaningless unless you also add up the total prize money in all races that Frankel has run in. Have you done that?

Apart from anything else though, you are comparing apples with oranges by picking some of the highest prize money races in Australia to get an average and then comparing it to Frankel's races and the prize money he has won, where the two thing don't even have any correlation and it's not as if too many Aussie horses make their debuts in those races without having run at a lower level first, which would affect their average prize money won, just as Frankel ran in a maiden and a conditions race to begin with. So you are trying to compare an average from some cherry picked races to one in a horse's actual racing career.

A closer equivalent would be to list top prize money races in England like the Derby, King George, International Stakes, Champion Stakes, QEll, St Leger and so on but very few horses will run in all of those and certainly not Frankel and so you would get a fictional average rather than an actual career race one anyway. I wouldn't be surprised if Camelot has a better average win prize money than Frankel despite running fewer races and Workforce definitely will have based on the types of races both horses won and whilst you say sprints aren't the most valuable races over there, neither are mile races here but they are the only types we can sensibly make comment on in relation to Black Caviar and Frankel.

I'm still wanting to reply to the BC injury thing too but you keep piping up with irrelevant sh1t that I don't want to paste a whole wall of text in one go.

Yep that's all true too GT and was in part what I was saying elsewhere when the question was asked why had no other horse had 22 wins from 22 before (even though that's not true anyway) and although obviously a great achievement, the fact BC is a mare and has even been kept in training for 22 races and as a 5-6 year old and is a sprinter too are all factors but the main one being there is no rush to go to stud with mares like there is with male horses.

IMA, while you do raise some pretty relevant points, why is it that comparing races on the same card, Frankel chooses to race in the lower prize money races.  The horse has been declared basically the best horse in the world and has a range of 7f to 12f.  Why then, would it not choose to run in a 10f race worth 50% more prize money.  Forget about the biggest races in different countries, this is a race that it was entered in? declared he would have donkey licked them, yet chose to race for 66% the prize money.

Why?
There is no valid reason.  And there is no reason to say the owners are that rich they don't need the money, or he is worth so much at stud, or any other bullshit.  Name one valid reason.  If the first two were so important, he would already be at stud.  He is making less racing, and is certainly not improving real race watchers opinion of him by dodging any good horse and racing for peanuts.

As for BC, it would be hard to imagine how you can claim 20-30 UK sprinters, in the space of 40+ years, would only be good enough to beat a mare running uphill with a stage 2 and a stage 4 tear in her hind leg muscles.
Only 20-30 of your horses could have beaten her under those conditions?  That is certainly not something that can be bragged about.

Just to paint the picture for you sorry, because he has been headstrong they have avoided 10f until they are confident he is consistently relaxed in his races from now on. He will be running over 10f in the Juddmonte International at York 22nd August so watch this space, lets see if So You Think holds his ground.

I actually agree with you about Frankel not being tested enough.

He should be in the Eclipse at Sandown over 10F. That would be what the public want. Henry Cecil actually annoys me with how defensive he is with the horse. Top horses need to be tested.