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Toronto has a pathological hatred of bookmakers and portrays his views as facts and attempts to bully anyone with the cheek to disagree with him as an evil, greedy, exploitative ogre. He is the pub bore who thinks he knows best for everyone and the public shouldn't have a right to spend their leisure time as they please, especially poor people for some reason.
There will sadly, always be victims in a free society where people are given choice, whether it be drinking, smoking, gambling, internet gambling or roulette machines. The operators of the machines are regulated, taxed and made to contribute to charities to aid those that have allowed the FOBTs to affect their lives seek treatment. The vast majority of FOBT users do so because they enjoy it and spend well within their means. The very notion that FOBTs are responsible for the closure of pubs, a massive crime wave, whole High Sreets closing down and other equally outlandish statements made by Toronto are just plain ridiculous. At the end of the day it all boils down to choice. Do you think we should live in a free society where people should be allowed to make their own decisions but where sadly, a small percentage will suffer or a society where we have no choice? I know which one I'd choose. |
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toronto you may find it helpful to join the real world. Pub closures are down to a variety of reasons. Drink driving laws and the general population's shift in attitude towards them is one of the chief reasons. Another is the bootleg alcohol brought in from across the channel and sold at a much lower price than the pub price. Both these factors have had an effect which results in more people drinking at home or at their friends's home.
If you want to do anything about FOBTs in your area lobby your local licensing authority. That is your local council ( the one where you pay your council tax ). You can speak direct to the Chairman of the Licensing Committee. His or her name and contact details will be on the council's website. You can be a man of action or remain as you are a barstool whinger. |
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Poor old Pixie lives in his own little world of self deception,trying to justify to himself his continuing scamming and theft from mainly poor and vulnerable people,
I do strongly dislike anyone who feeds off the misery of others.In my job i see a lot of these types of people and they always try to justify what they know is wrong with devious arguments. Work to do now will be back later |
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whodareswins (!!) and pixie (!!!) you two aren't possibly connected are you ?
Get off the forum you plants and next time be a bit more subtle.... |
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WhoDW I said one of the reasons.If people are losing enough of their low disposable income to keep open and supply large profits to the huge number of these shops,7 in one small Hackney high street.Surely you can see they must be a factor in the death of High Streets and the closure of pubs.A lot of these pubs and shops were struggling anyway due to the recession,so it would not take much to push them over the edge and even a 5% drop in sales due to FOBTs would be enough to send many out of business.Why do you think that virtually the only new shops opening in high streets are bookmakers Fobt arcades.
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homefortea I do not know pixie. I have disagreements with him on here. Enjoy Mrs Palm and her daughters.
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toronto possibly one of the reasons, but not a significant one in comparison to others. It depends on the job you do as to whether or not you see the effects on humanity that is short of disposal income.
You can try to do something about what you disagree with or just complain about it. Taking your case to those that can effect change seems a better way to me than just complaining. But each to his own. |
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banks , i am not necessarily talking about bets you have made or are about to make .
my point being that i never see you partake in any discussion involving horse racing in any way . everyday there are bad rides , suspected non triers etc , but yet you only seem to discuss things related to bookmakers , fobt , closing accounts etc . |
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For all the problems in Ireland government has resisted the introduction of "smart economy" technology into betting offices.
I've not had a bet in a shop in years but regularly watch racing in them so I can comment on the average betting denizen who is, by and large, down on his/her luck. I'm not in the least sorry to see betting offices closing down and the Irish bookmakers' solution to falling turnover and profits is the dreaded slot machine (the "appeal" to government can be found on-line masquerading as "recommendations to realise the full potential of Irish Betting"-I kid you not!). Ireland and GB share a common problem with an underclass of the impoverished who largely depend on the state for their very existence and the politicians interested in their cause are few and far between. At least we have an emerging socialist movement here ("people before profit" etc) that is representative and vocal whereas, to my eyes, a lib dem/tory constituency is all about protecting the well-heeled (dropping taxes in this woeful recession!!) and labour has long been emasculated from its noble origins. GB has no equivalent of Sinn Fein, the socialist party etc who at least claim to be concerned about the under-privileged. I suspect your version of socialism today is the national front-extreme right to fill the socialist vacuum. FOBT's are a blight on life and what do the tories do? They recognise it as a cash cow and tax them to the hilt thus ensuring that they are firmly established in your small town betting den and seen as an important revenue earner for the exchequer. Pleas of free will and choice and the majority by the bookies representatives here ring very hollow when faced by the destruction they cause. I hope this ban in Ireland continues for ever. |
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GB has no equivalent of Sinn Fein, the socialist party etc who at least claim to be concerned about the under-privileged.
To be fair I think the political wing of the IRA might struggle for votes over here. |
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You think I was advocating that?
I despise that party myself and it's no doubt a largely opportunistic move on the part of their old guard. However, its undeniable that they have "recruited" many able dealers in recent times who are young, educated, very articulate, hard-working and on top of their briefs. Who protects your under-class Banks or is the wittyy riposte what life is about nowadays? |
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In the UK I would say that the over-generous benefits system protects the underclass very well.I think that we can do without a lecture from the Irish whose Political System has been the most corrupt in the Western World for years.
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It's as corrupt as ours? Good luck with that.
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Hang the messenger, muddy the waters and defend the slots at all cost.
Over and out. |
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banks , do you suffer from Atychiphobia ?
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Irelands a joke.Its been living off handouts from the E.C. for years.
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The vast majority of FOBT users do so because they enjoy it and spend well within their means
Yeah right. |
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RA didn't Sinn Fein the socialist party become the Democratic Left? Or was it Sinn Fein the workers party? From my small knowledge of Irish politics Tony Gregory played old CJH like a star.
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banks , do you suffer from Atychiphobia ?
Good word! No I don't. I'm also struggling to understand the relevance of the query unless I have missed something. |
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In the UK I would say that the over-generous benefits system protects the underclass very well.
It doesn't happen often but I have to say that homefortea is absolutely spot on with this. It has almost become farcical. (The benefits system not me agreeing with hft!) |
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Banks just how does the benefits system of the UK protect anyone from an addiction?
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I think you have taken the comment out of context. You made a general point about protection of the underclass as you term it and homefortea responded on that they are protected by the benefits system which is true.
You then appear to have morphed this into us claiming that the benefits system protects people from addiction. That is a level of creativity that toronto44 would be proud of! |
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Dr Gonzo 23 Mar 12 13:20
The vast majority of FOBT users do so because they enjoy it and spend well within their means Yeah right. They do. I am a bookmaker and a very tiny percentage in my shops bet more than they can afford and just one person has ever taken the opportunity available to them to self exclude. I'm sorry that the surveys and facts don't suit your argument. |
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how many of your shops would be viable without FOBTs ?
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None.
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round figure
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I reckon for Hills you could say 1 in 3 to 1 in 4. So that is what? 500-600 Shops.
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The Gamb comission was launched to regulate betting and safeguard punters has in fact caused more problems for vunrulabe people by allowing more betting shops equiped with fobts bizarre really
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FOBTs were around before the GC and there are no more shops now than there were 10 years ago.
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I disagree with that pixie, if you talk to many FOBT players they will maybe not say they hate the things and they are addicted but they will say nigh on everything else. Being a lad who worked in a City Centre Shop and knows quite a few people they would come to me when I was on the ale etc... complaining and stuff.
Obviously it may be different in say your Shop is in Richmond upon Thames or Ross on Wye etc... compared to Salford or Burnley. |
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Banks I'll leave hft enjoying the efforts of Mrs Palm and her daughters.
I didn't mention the underclass. If I am not mistaken toronto's case is that FOBTs are addicitve, and frequent by the underclass - whatever that is or whomsoever they are. This addiction means that the user, who is a member of the underclass, is left with no resources to spend on what others would claim are a higher priority such as their families or their own well being. You claim that the benefits system protects the underclass by your agreement with hft. Once more if I am not mistaken toronto's case is that nothing protects this underclass from its addiction. You have not distinquished if you mean the benefits system does protect the underclass from addiction or if it does not. So it is possible I could have taken your comment out of context. But you may be avoiding, however inadvertently, addressing toronto's case. |
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That right like banks? Sure when I joined Hills in 2003 they had about 1700 Shops and now they have 2300 according to wiki.
Surprised at that like as in the two towns closest to me the number of Shops has increased from 2 to 4 in one (population about 30k) and in the other from 8 to 11 (population about 100k)and at the services on the motorway that links the two there is a laddies in there. Glasgow is horrific - must be like 12 within 200 yards of Central Station. |
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ah right did'nt realise that banks- so some major opens with two doors to get around the 4 machine rule
what gets me now is the machine mystery customer who downgrades staff for not directing them to the fobt 1st wrap free |
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lol, is that right capt f?
they knock points off for not asking the mystery shopper if he wants a do on the fobt? heavens above, what a carry on. |
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Cadizza, how many of your customers asked to be self-excluded after moaning to you about their losses to you down the pub afterwards?
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Would be interesting to know how many of the current cabinet have large share portfolio's in the big High St firms... one or two I'd wager!!
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Hills made a few acquisitions, Stanley was a big one and a few smaller chains since 2003.
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banks what is your occupation - are u a machine marketing manager for a multiple ?
cadiz yes it is true told bya koral manger who was marked such |
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how many shops do you operate pixie ?
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Quite a few, last year I must of done about 6 - that is lads from 20-35.
Had one lad who had actually been clean (not played them for 5 years) buy they opened a new shop and stupidly he went back in and got on them again. It may sound funny but I take it very seriously after seeing a mate top himself due to Gambling and often looked through the Self Exclusion Folder. Had a fair few lads thank me for pulling them up on how to do it etc.... Took one lad in the back (very, very small Shop) so didn't want him having the embarrassment of doing it in front of others and he thanks me whenever I see him. Have had to do it with mates as well - when I was 23 (8 years ago) had to ask a lad 10 years older than me to leave as his Self Ex was not up and he thanked me. There is a right and wrong way to do things when it comes to Self Exclusions, I am a bit oout the ordinary when it comes to all that I must admit as I have a good memory of people but that also applies to dodgy punters etc... with photos that are up behind the screens. Lost the plot with a DOM when he said "I would take every single penny off these bastards" when doing an audit last July (Hills went to 12 month only self ex's from 5 years). It was that comment and my disgust at the bloke that eventually led to me being fired for having a go at him. I have seen Hills DOMs and Area Managers laugh at Self Exclusions. It is disgusting and when spout all this "Responsible Gambling" to everyone it makes me feel sick. |