leave them in the shops keeps all the idiots in one place...................

The reality of machines are they take your money so quickly and unlike a win on the horses etc,etc, you have absolutely no chance of a life changing win.

They are an addiction for a greater proportion of the gambling community and while nobody minds anyone losing their own money the addicted rarely do lose their own, its starts off that way, then its your mums or sisters or the next doors neighbors and then its burglary and even worse.
Then Society pays for the courts, the prisons, the probation services the list is endless and then its quite usual for the victim of compulsive gambling never to have a proper job again.
A weeks wages can go in one machine in a couple of hours.

Are they a good recreation ?????

Thats right Moondan.I remember reading that research shows 50% of all crime in England is due to drug addiction and far higher in the poor inner cities.Just as a drug addicts will turn to crime to feed their habit so will a lot of these tens of thousands of new gambling addicts being created by these FOBTs.Spreading even more misery to some of poorest people in the country.

Another big problem with these FOBTs is the way they suck up so much of poor peoples spending money.So where before most would have had a bet lost what they could afford and then say go to the pub with his mates or taken his family for a meal.Now so many lose nearly all their spare money on these evil things,that they have no money to spend elsewhere.They are one of the reasons why so many pubs are closing and so many high streets are dying.People can only spend their money once and when these tens of millions are lost on the FOBTs,every other business that was previously getting some of this money is suffering or going bust.So any jobs they create,i bet a lot more are lost in more labour intensive(and decent)businesses.

Banks a rare spelling mistake bon viveur !! Of course pubs are closing down for many reasons, heh, I like a bottle of cut price Claret as much as the next man.However those potential pub regulars have actually left their houses and are out and about.Even the uneducated can see if that they passed a Betting Shop they would still have cash for a pint.If they have done their conkers on the FOBTs then they can only return home or turn to crime !!

Banks if you read my post correctly i said....ONE OF THE REASONS....and they must be one of the major reasons.Its not only the huge profits they are taking out of peoples pockets but the users are also paying all the expenses and wages of each shop pre profit.AS Homefortea says if they are in the bookies doing their money,they cant be in the pub at the same time(now you are allowed to open after working people have finished work)and they cant go to the pub later or the next day if they have done all their money on the FOBTs.Supermarkets have always sold alcohol Banks.

They must have put far more people out of work,than jobs they have created.For example say a restaurant serves 40 people on an average night at £20a head,so takes £800 a night out of peoples disposable income.To do that they would say need to employ say 2 waiting staff,2 chiefs and an assistant plus a manager.Thats 6 jobs but in a bookmakers they would have one person(2 at the most)on in the evening taking(stealing)about the same amount of disposable income.Yes Banks a lot of restaurants and other similar businesses have gone bust due to these machines,taking tens of millions of working peoples money they would have spent on other forms of leisure.

Supermarket beer sales overtook pub beer sales for the first time last year. Are you suggesting that this is due to B2 machines?

As a theoretical example consider that every single pound lost on machines resulted in a pound less spent on alcohol the total drop in  UK alcohol sales would be less than 3%.

A rudimentary understanding of how google works is sufficient.

Not really. There is so much crap spouted on here it is entertaining to disprove it and watch people claim black is white despite being presented definitive evidence to the contrary.

I'm neither.

As I have explained many times before just because I offer an alternative side to discussions doesn't mean I am pro machines. The rubbish spouted on here is incredible. Many of the points put forward are naive and lack any depth. They are full of rhetoric which will get people nowhere but many, and I include you in this group, are impervious to this and as a result just rant on repeating the same points without any real understanding of how to get things changed.

In some ways it is a shame as the same amount of effort put into trying to do something constructive about things may go some way towards effecting change. Unfortunately we now live in a victim dominated culture where people are more keen to point the finger than stand up and do anything to improve matters.

QED.

It is pointless discussing with you because, like the pub bore, you don't have the mental capacity to develop an argument so just continue trotting out the same unsubstantiated lines.

As a post script I am flattered that you think I am a well trained communicator. I have never received any such training and have never worked in anything like a comms/PR type of role in my life. I think what you really mean is that I had an education. It's not too late for you to learn things too however I suspect your missed place pride will prevent you ever accepting there is a need.

After all your words Banks, what it comes down to is you defending the FOBTs in your own devious way and me and most others on here saying they are wrong.Just as you choose to defend everything bookmakers do.

Nowt

Christ life seems difficult today.

toronto44 is correct.hth

I bet plenty but see no point swapping views with sources I can't verify.

I have a circle of friends who are keen punters whose opinions I trust and I prefer to keep my punting discussions confined to them.

I bet plenty but see no point swapping views with sources I can't verify.


Bit of a cop out, all these are on here are views with very little "Inside info". you dont need to verify a view, you either agree or disagree or may learn something. Lots of good threads on ante post and the Cheltenham forum.

Bit of a cop out, all these are on here are views with very little "Inside info". you dont need to verify a view, you either agree or disagree or may learn something. Lots of good threads on ante post and the Cheltenham forum.

I don't disagree with that and I do read loads of posts to see if there is any info I have missed but I'm not a big fan of swapping tips with strangers. It seems a fairly pointless exercise to me.

First i dont trust any figures you come up

That is beyond childish. You don't lie the conclusions so you pretend the facts aren't true!

Which figures don't you trust? I get them all through google and will happily post the source for every stat I make.

As for your use of stats well your alcohol tale starts with one verified stat, alters it and then drifts off into a raft of assumptions and estimations. No wonder your arguments fall at the first hurdle.

But not a pointless exercise to spend hours on here arguing for and defending bookmakers.

I spend way way more time sorting out my own punting, speaking to friends about it and travelling all over wathing events. Apologies for not writing a diary listing it all on here for your consumption.

Banks, Bon Viveur...Give it a rest.The poor and feckless have only so much money to spend. (unless they turn to crime which I am sure that you have the latest statistics to hand no doubt !)If it goes in the FOBT's then it is lost to the economy as a whole.That conclusion isn't Rocket Science !!
  Now calm down, the wine bars of Central London are now open and it is time to discuss the finer points of business with your circle of friends, and you can delight them with tales of dividends from your Bookmaker Shareholdings..
  No point in getting worked up and making all those spelling mistakes !!

Sometimes its better to just take it on the chin Banks and get your strength up for the next bookmaker v punter debate.Why not go back to HQ and get fresh instructions.

Still no source for those figures then!!!!!!!!