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1m2f on the straight course at Newmarket.
10/11 each of two?
10/11 each of two?
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Ask Timeform. Simple.
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I'm asking my fellow forum members. Timeform is a bit of a joke to be honest. Didnt they give harbinger a silly rating after one good performance?
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Why does it have to be straight? make Frankel go around a left handed turn imo.
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One good performane? Wasn't he unbeaten that season. And beat the Arc winner out of sight.
And what on earth has Harbinger got to do with Frankel? I suggest Mr Eb, you get the form book out and compare the horses STS beat with those Frankel has exterminated this season. The clues are there. |
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el gran senor would stuff both of them
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And what on earth has Harbinger got to do with Frankel?
He was referring to the accuracy of timeform, and i have to agree. It's a matter of opinion and my opinion is that Frankel is just a freak (in a good way) and is just completely unbeatable. |
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SEA THE STARS would
 at him!tom was at him at the 7 f marker against excel so how the hell is he gonna hold off sts over 10f...no chance!! |
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the difference is one always shows his hand!!
sts = bottomless! YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS! |
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Golluum, so because Timeform produced a figure on one horse, and it is impossible whether they are right or wrong and you disagree with, that disqualifies them from an opinion on Frankel? Get real.
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considering there would be a MAJOR doubt in my mind about frankel getting 1m2f in the first place- no chance against see the stars-NO CHANCE
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I'll say one thing, if you'd a big bet it'd be brown trousers watching it
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I think the statements of Henry Cecil -'probably the best horse I've ever seen' of Prince Khalid saying 'he's the best horse I've ever owned' say it all . They are the experts and they are adamant this is the greatest horse of a generation.
In answer to your original question Frankel has yet to Run over 1m2f but I'd go for him to win. However over a mile Sea the Stars would not see which way Frankel had gone. This is the greatest horse for decades, the Guineas was sensational , and apart from a slightly below par run at R Ascot he has been untouchable. |
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I went to Ascot today to watch Frankel and he was magnificent. STS ran the greatest 6 stretch of races in the modern era and was never troubled - 6 races, 6 G1, 6 Months - and 6 of teh best races. For me, Frankel has to have a more ambitious season next year, although i dont think ill ever see a guineas like that ever again astonishing.
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frankels time in guineas-1min 37sec
sea the stars same race- 1 min 35sec wake up and smell the roses lads, sea the stars was the BEST! not ever a doubt about him- will frankel this, will frankel that, will frankel get 1m 2f? NO |
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not see which way frankel went- dont make me laff!
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taipan I thought Sea the stars was brilliant and still do but Frankel is even better
Interesting you quote the guineas times. Considering Frankel raced on his own for virtually the whole race I think that proves what an incredible performance that was!! |
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Just got back from ascot today and Frankel was superb and would of won by a lot further had Quelly got serious with the beast. Not sure how much ATR/BBC show after line today but it took a gd 4 furlongs for Quelly to stop the bull so on that evidence you would say a mile 2 would be in his compass. Unfortunately it is a race we can only dream of but they are both 2 of the best we are likely to see in a very long time and we should be pleased to have witnessed/experienced them both.
On what they have both beat and over the distances i would just edge STS in front of Frankel but if the prince/Sir Henry keep Frankel in training as they have suggested then you have to think he will go over further next year. Lets hope they do Right enough ranting back to the beers |
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The Guineas times are not a good guide, different ground, different pace etc
Dancing Brave won in one of the slowest times ever, i think Mister Baileys broke the track record |
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i'm not saying it wasnt a great performance, just not any better than sts
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I don't think Timeform is the best guide either as they just take the single best performance and don't consider the rest of the horse's career or query why there might be a big discrepancy between the best run and the rest of it.
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i'm not a big clock man, but to say sts wouldnt see where frankel went, is madness and insult to the horse
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What rating did Hawkwing get when he won the Lockinge?
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Maybe we should all say it would be a deadheat and feel privileged to have seen two brilliant horses
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140 or something like that
IMO you should consider what level of rating a horse would be likely to produce based on his career as a whole, so a 'typical' rating rather than what he could do when everything fell into place and his rivals ran seemingly way below par. |
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and what do you think mr eboue?
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Frankel and Sea The Stars are too exceptional horses but what STS did in his 3yr old season was just special,next level. 6 Grp1's 8f-10f-12f the ultimate test of the race horse put it this way it wont be repeated for a long time. Frankel for me is like the Rock an amazing Champion Miler
So to answer I think STS would win. |
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I'm a jumps man but i do enjoy the big flat races. It would be an intiguing affair for sure. Mick Kinane vs Tom Quelly might just twist my arm in favour of the Irish horse.
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Other than Royal Ascot i think Queally has ridden him well
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Arl 8Y G1 381K 8-10 2/14 (¾L Domedriver 9-0) 4/5F M J Kinane — * *
Lon 8Gd 3yG1 105K 8-11 1/7 (½L Banks Hill 8-12) 3/5J M J Kinane — * * Goo 8GF C1G1 157K 8-13 1/5 (2L Noverre 9-7) 8/13F M J Kinane — * * Asc 8Gd C13yG1 168K 9-0 1/9 (1¾L Landseer 9-0) 4/5F M J Kinane — * * Cur 8Sft/Hy 3yG1 145K 9-0 1/7 (1½L Century City 9-0) 4/7F M J Kinane 120 * * Nmk 8GF C13yG1 174K 9-0 1/22 (nk Hawk Wing 9-0) 9/1 J Murtagh — * * Nmk 7GS C12yG1 116K 9-0 1/8 (shd Landseer 9-0) 4/6F M J Kinane The Rock  |
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ah yes, a diplomatic man, nothing like sitting on the FENCE!!
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coincidence, same jockey[;)]
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I would definitely have Rock Of Gibraltar above Hawk Wing.
Best Miler between Miesque and Frankel |
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Sea The Stars would laugh at the poor thing
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Fruitless discussions these as whichever side of the fence you are on, no matter what evidence is put before you, you will not change your opinion. For me the horse that was 1.5 length superior to Delegator over a mile, and 1 length superior to Rip Van Winkle and Mastercraftsman over 10f wouldn't get Frankel off the bridle. Mind, I'd have had many many more, both before and after Sea The Stars that would have beaten as well (obviously the one and only DB and Zarkava to name but 2). Such a shame these things can never happen.....oh for a time machine!!
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Brigadier Gerard 1970-72 1111-111111-11111211
2 year old Newbury 5fur. 8st 5lb Bt Maisy Dotes 8st 7lb by 5 lenghts Salisbury 6fur 9st 7lb bt Gaston Again 9st by 4 lengths Newbury 6 fur 9st 2lb bt Comedy Star 8st 10lb by 2 lengths Newmarket (Middle Park) Gr1 6 fur 9st bt Mummy’s Pet 9st by 3 lengths 3 year old Newmarket (2000gns) Gr1 1 mile 9st bt Mill Reef 9st by 3 lengths Royal Ascot (St James Palace) Gr1 1 mile 9st bt Sparkler 9st by sh hd Goodwood (Sussex Stakes) Gr1 1 mile 8st 7lb bt Faraway Son 9st 4lb by 5 lengths Goodwood (Goodwood Mile)Gr2 1 mile 8st 6lb bt Gold Rod 9st by 10 lengths Ascot (QE11) Gr1 1 mile 8st 8lb bt Dictus 9st 1lb by 8 lengths Newmarket (Champion Sts) Gr1 10 fur 8st 7lb bt Rarity 9st by sh hd 4 year old Newbury (Lockinge) Gr1 1 mile 9st 5lb bt Grey Mirage 7st 11lb by 2 1/2 lengths Sandown (Westbury Stks) Gr2 10 fur 9st 10lb bt Ballyhot 8st 10lb by ½ length Ascot (Prince of Wales Stks) Gr1 10 fur 9st 8lb bt Steel Pulse 8st 3lb by 5 lengths (CR) Sandown (Eclipse Stks) Gr1 10 fur 9st 5lb bt Gold Rod 9st 5lb by 1 length Ascot (King George 1V & QE11) Gr1 12 fur 9st 7lb bt Parnell 9st 7lb by 1 ½ lengths York (Benson & Hedges Stks) Gr1 10 fur 9st 7lb beaten by Roberto 8st 10lb by 3 lengths (CR) Ascot (QE11) Gr1 1 mile 9st 7lb bt Sparkler 9st by 6 lengths (CR) Newmarket (Champion Stks) Gr1 10 fur 9st 3lb bt Riverman 8st 10lb by 1 ½ lengths CR = course record Won from 5 furlongs to 12 furlongs. Both making the running and coming from off the pace. On Firm and Heavy ground. Only beaten once, by a Derby winner receiving 11 lbs. First 6 races as 4 year old run in approx. 12 weeks. Less than 3 months. |
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Frankel is the best horse I've ever seen.
He made Excelebration, who is a top, top miler, and who I would rate as equivalent to something like Rock of Gibraltar, look like a plater. |
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Frankel would have mullered anything over 1m 2f, sea the stars included.
The horse is crying out for 1m 2f in fact. I have watched racing for 35 years and this is the best horse I have ever seen with the possible exception of Dancing Brave, the rest just beat mediocre rivals in poor years. Frankel today hammered a group one horse with contemptuous ease who was also clear of another group one horse, rarely if ever do you see that! |
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STS to win over any distance.
I'd have my house on Rock of Gibraltar to beat Excelebration. |
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Herb I agree with much of what you say but Excelebration still has a long way to go. He bt Rio de la Plata ffs in his Gr1 and Immortal bt Goldikova but the ground was all against Goldi. He is stunning though. Lets hope next year the form lines are franked. And hopefully Henry aims at the stars. Good times ahead I think.
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