Field Of Gold has only edged out a fraction (6/5 from 5/6 at best); bookies know he'd beat Ruling Court in the SJP unless the heavens open. If so, neither would win, I think; Henri Matisse would be the main beneficiary on inclement weather.

But, no advantage to be gained backing now given the skinny prices eg either could do a Kyprios or the weather could intervene. The prices for The Eclipse are not generous either. It's difficult to string along a few trebles for Royal Ascot, Sandown, The Curragh (near impossible given the possible switcheroo by AOB), Juddmonte Int and King George (Kempton).

tennesee stud for me  as well for leger

The thing is Impossible some races aren’t priced up, so that makes it double difficult as my other fancies are shortening and the ones not priced will go off short.

I get that Kincsem but Lambourn was 10/1 or 12/1  -  was it not big enough? Was tipped loads yesterday and shortened more because of the withdrawal of Ruling Court.

Glad that you got your money back, that’s unbelievable but not surprising!  Torquator must still hurt. Only recall two 50/1 winners.

I do not care much for tipped horses.
A tipped horse is a horse that is overbet and the odds are lower that the chance.
The people who are tipping are not betting.
There is groupthink - they recommend what everyone expects them to recommend.

People are complaining about the ride Ryan Moore gave Delacroix.
Delacroix's sire Dubawi was a miler and is not a sire of middle-distance horses.
Delacroix's dam Tepin was a miler.

That is much the same as bloodstock agents who buy horses with owners money.
They risk nothing and get a commission so the more they spend the more they make.

I backed Lambourn (coincidentally a horsey town) at 18 here for £3. Then lay him for 16. I did not back him when he showed the rest a clean pair of heels at the start.

Looking back I should have lay Delacroix in-running after 3f. He'd no chance after being shuffled back trying to get a better position from an awkward draw.

I'm happy for Lordan. He showed enterprise and rode others to sleep. But, I do think Lambourn is an above average Derby winner. I'm very surprised he's 4/5 for the Irish equivalent. I've a feeling he might not turn up either; Coolmore will try to win with one of their other Epsom charges eg Delacroix or The Lion In Winter. Either winning = massive stud fee boost.

Thanks for explaining Kincsem and the info re: breeding. I’m surprised you felt that Lambourn wouldn’t stay. He was one that I was certain would.

They were very confident about New Ground getting the trip because of his pedigree. I can’t fathom why he pulls so hard, first time out this year behind Caulificar he settled beautifully. Yesterday he was even getting the hurry up from the car tracking them all down! Thought the jock should have got off and walked him.
If you re read the interview with his trainer he mentioned the stamina doubts about Delacroix, eg having Tepin in there.

You have layer him as you said you would Impossible before the start.

I asked if a sleight of hand had been played on us all (on the outside)  and yes I believe that it was via the flip flopping and market drifts and moves between Delacroix and the Lion In Winter.

I don’t believe one bit that either was ever truly fancied by those on the inside.

When O’Biden led him in the parade that was also a sign. A big one. Never seen that.

As for Lordan impossible he showed no initiative, he just did what he was told. He cowered out from trying to win the oaks the day before. That was Moore’s and the script almost didn’t play out as expected. Any other jockey would have tried more and not gone so quick to set it up for a string stayer.

The derby was a thanks for all the work he’s done and they were assisted by the bias for front runners.

As pointed out by a couple - Moore hasn’t ridden many of their Derby winners, the public were played big time.

Someone I was watching the derby with asked if New Groynd had been broken in! [:happy:

I could see their point and surely he needs a different bit as that one he didn’t like.

There’s a massive engine in there if only it could be harnessed.

I don’t study the betting John but I’d not like to hear the word genius for either Comb over or pasty face!

agree , they really have spoilt the wonderful racing from the 70s that i fell in love with ,    oh yes theyve won so man y derbies but francesca fair play said yesterday, theyve had 101 bloody runners ,

The winner looked a boat at Chester you were backing the Lion thinking he’d come on. Delacroix was a NON TRYER!

I’ll say it.

He was alongside New Ground with T Stud on the rail, there was no bump and he moved behind NG - THEY both ran on he didn’t AT all it was far too early to capitulate!

Was never there trying and no one will openly say that.

Makes a mockery of our great race.

Pride of Harris won a duff Dante was hard fit for it. You were warned.

And more games to play….

It was like watching Serpentine again. So happy got Lordan.

Damysus , quite excited pre start . It looked like a decent crossover place was being aimed at , but got stuck 3 wide pulling like a train = Race over . If you watch the first race , that strip of ground on the inside was the place to be , Spiritual hardly left a print . Easy in hidsight mind .