Nightwalker (5); Green Storm (8); Sea Scout (18); Delacroix (14); Tuscan Hill (6);

draw:

1 Rogue Impact
2 Stanhope Gardens
3 Lazy Griff
4 Midak
5 Nightwalker
6 Tuscan Hills
7 Ruling Court
8 Green Storm
9 Nightime Dancer
10 Lambourn
11 Tornado Alert
12 Tennessee Stud
13 Al Wasl Storm
14 Delacroix
15 Damysus
16 Pride Of Arras
17 New Ground
18 Sea Scout
19 The Lion In Winter

Ruling Court (7); Lazy Griff (3); The Lion In Winter (9); Rogue Impact (1);

if draw is a consideration for moore then that rules out the lion

I think Ruling Court (7) and Lambourn (10) have the best draws. The other major players eg Delacroix (14), Damysus (15), Pride Of Aras (16) and The Lion In Winter (19) have fared badly; New Ground (French) has drawn (17).

The draw in relation to odds - anyone recall having 3 @ triple figure odds there might well be more come the day.

i do think it's very poor that a trainer of such standing is unable to tell the public which of his horses are running and who will ride when it's only 3 or 4 days before the race

Agreed, but that's what happens when a yard has so many to choose from. It's that final piece of work that's so important to them. And largely the reason for their runners being punted on the day.

Aren’t joes and Lads one now?

how many more derby winners would Lester have had if he could wait for the draw and skip mounts etc

I doubt Piggott would've given much consideration to the draw. Probably the most overrated factor concerning this race. How many horses could you confidently say were beaten by the draw? The only beaten horse who ought to have won was Dancing Brave, and whatever the jockey apologists say about that it was a piss poor ride.

Impossible you now think the classless Delacroix will win? If he stays? You were going to lay him on the back of thinking that he won’t.

A jockey decision really has such an effect on people? I mean the Lion ran like a mule last time out, was there a doubt about this?

Fair play! Or blocked it it’s run…. lotsof horses in at odds that will need to be dodged and all the favoured ones at the head of the market from the Dante around each other with the exception of Rulling Court .

As long as it's a proper pace, which it is most of the time, the draw will have little relevance.

For Paul :

Tom Marquand sat on Nightwalker for the first time on the Al Bahathri Polytrack just after 9.20am but it was Damysus who was the pick of John and Thady Gosden's two Betfred Derby contenders.

David Milnes

Thanks for that , topped up a bit yesterday . My only worry is if the Dante was really a dog of a race .

'Delashay', Delacroix needs to get a good position early and conserve energy otherwise he might be caught out when stamina truly comes into play. If so, he'd be outrun by Lambourn, Damysus, Ruling Court or TLIW if any of these is in close proximity at the 2f marker.

Which would you have at the 2f marker, Delacroix, Pride Of Aras, Lambourn or Damysus? And, if TLIW and Ruling Court at the same marker? Personally, it will not be Delacroix (Dubawi/lacking class).

Yep, 2f from the post.

Another dimension that adds interest to me for this year's Derby is the forecast of the striding analysts. I'm all for as much information as possible out there, whether people choose to use it or not, so I welcome this extra data. I'm sure this kind of info can be useful if used very selectively, but that's the same with speed figures or any other kind of analysis tool. In most situations I think all it does is reinforce conclusions that you've probably already come to. Such as, horse A. who looks an iffy stayer also strides like an unlikely stayer. That said, it might  sway me if I was very undecided about a horse's stamina.

What I do question though is when it is used to cast doubts on a horse's stamina who otherwise has looked a very probable stayer. Or last year when we were told before the Commonwealth Cup that Inisherin didn't stride like a typical sprinter. Well who cares when he had already posted a Gp1 time performance over 6f at Haydock? This year I reckon Desert Flower and, even more so, Delacroix have looked like probable stayers on the racecourse. The striding analysts have red flagged both runners. If both of them bomb out looking like non stayers I might be converted, but at the moment I'm highly sceptical.

Impossible I think that many are forgetting the form lines here and have written off Tennessee because of his comeback run.

Why forgive Lion but not him @ 66/1 ?

Lambourn nowhere but shorter odds, Windlord gives a formline to Damyasus and the Dante. Trinity College wasn’t beaten far in a Group 1 by dual Group Winner.

If this is the way I had to pick horses I wouldn’t bother!

Delacroix
By Jack Haynes, reporter

It has paid to side with Aidan O'Brien's runners in recent years and the draw and shubsequent jockey bookings has led me to favour Delacroix over his stablemate The Lion In Winter.