Horse Antepost
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bit early but that was a promising debut by the lion in winter at the curragh this afternoon ,niggled along halfway he showed a good turn of foot to beat a promising one who had exp and his short priced stablemate ides of March , on breeding much further should suit .
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that's the first sea the stars i can remember from ballydoyle
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If you mean Lion In The Winter the bookies are running scared after the triumphant achievement of City Of Troy at Epsom recently.
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14-1
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I like Sea The Stars, that's about it. Lion In Winter is 20/1 with Ms Coates for Epsom. Hopefully he wins his next race convincingly. Then 20/1 for Epsom will be a betting prospect. Let's hope so.
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The acid test is The Dante on thursday. He's 11/8 but his trainer has cautioned he'll come on a lot for this race. He needs to run well and win otherwise Delacroix will assume the mantle of fav for the Epsom Derby and rightfully too. A win will contract his price even further; if bombing could mean Irish equivalent on 29th June.
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If he bombs I don't know about the Irish Derby, he might not be winning anything. Things went wrong after the Acomb and they certainly didn't improve with that bulletin from O'Brien on the eve of the season. Would it that bigger surprise having won all the trials, the supposed big gun fails to perform? Should he flop you then have two horses heading the market who are both potential non stayers. As for the Oaks, I think Desert Flower is even less likely to stay, and her Guineas win wasn't that convincing. Talk of Elwateen going for the Oaks, but for me they would be better off going French Oaks. Pedigree again raises doubts for the longer trip.
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If The Lion In Winter bombed on thursday that could mean he needed more time. As he's not SJP bound the Irish Derby could be a better alternative; Delacroix is the able substitute in-waiting for here. As for The Oaks I've a small bet on Giselle, with Bedtime Story for the Irish version.
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It’d of been nice to see Hotaz run in France on Sunday re Delacroix, I felt the English 2000 suited Harrington’s colt better being on the straight track. France always seemed an odd one to go for.
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Delacroix reminds me of the hometown hero entering the Derby winning races that he ought to over in Ireland. I think Stay True is open to more and his ride looked like schooling in public, also Delacroix is an April foal.
Kincsem how many of them have won at Epsom? |
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delacroix, is wortyh fav at the moment, but imho wont stay
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A fav for beating stable mates
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Can see why the appeal but feel there are others open to improve
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I’d not be surprised if there’s a SUPP *
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Yesterday Moore uncannily said more in any interview that I’ve heard after the Musidora re: prep and time, both of which have been given to many of their runners this year.
Snowfall was the last Musidora/ Oaks winner that they mentioned on ITV. Though I recall Alexandrova did the double too. Swagman was able to win a trial early (a race that they hadn’t done well in) having not run since last JULY. The Lion last raced in August and I don’t see why he shouldn’t be right enough if so talented to take this lot, even if I’ll have an each way on something else at bigger odds. I’ve been waiting to see this colt. |
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After seeing the Dante,the 2000Gs Wnr,if he makes the gig,will win
the Derby. |
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But what happened to the Godolphin supp? Yet another last time out winner that’s gone backwards!!
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Still think there’ll be a SUPP * don’t think they’ll go with just one (Delacroix) and I’ll wait now ‘till then. They maybe have improved tons after now being forgotten about ;)
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Despite the disappointment of The Lion In Winter - connections have warned about his fitness - I'm still not warmed to Delacroix. I'm not convinced Delacroix has the class to beat Ruling Court. He's started odds-on 2x, and beaten little eg Lambourn and Acapulco Bay; beaten by Green Impact and Hotazhell.
Moore told AOB The Lion In Winter was classy, and would have no problem staying 12f. He'd to switch earlier as others were coming round him. Then he was chopped in his running. Post this Moore was looking after him. Unless the Lion needs more time I think Epsom is still his main target. |
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today could have been LiW's equivalent to the guineas runs of the last two derby winners
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Love the way that they sound like they’re scratching when they know exactly wha gowann!
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reckon myself that theyll have LIW , MT KIL, LAMBOURN, ACAPULCO BAY IN THE DERBY, and wouldnt surprise me one bit the fav DELOCROIX will be going to france,
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Found this,if of any interest re Derby foals.
1986 - 2024. Jan - 3 Feb - 8 Mar - 18 Apl - 5 May - 4 |
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And wouldn’t that be a turn up Elisjohn! Unfortunately horses that are seen as Derby types aren’t normally quick enough for the Jockey Club! No wonder they have such a dismal record there!!
They have others Officer, Twain, CPisarro etc…. It will be interesting to see what happens (never mind the punters) with plans “”seemingly fluid and a little up the wall”” at the moment! |
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I’m wondering how this change in decs this year will alter the plans for the late starter Lion in winter? Will it mean more of a rush in what is already a short interlude?
Hoiles said yesterday that he felt the Derby would come too quick for him. Aidan O'Brien raises potential problem with Derby 72 hour finalisation 06 May 2025 by Racing Post The Betfred Derby field will be finalised earlier than ever after the Jockey Club announced next month's Classic will feature declarations 72 hours out, but the move has not been welcomed by Aidan O'Brien – the leading trainer in the history of the race – who raised concerns over the change. The 246th running of the Derby will be staged on June 7, but the final line-up will be known 24 hours earlier than usual in a bid to bolster the excitement and anticipation for the Epsom Classic. Worth £1.5 million, the Derby build-up is also set to feature a new-look draw ceremony, with Epsom and the BHA using equipment deployed for football's FA Cup draws. O'Brien's The Lion In Winter is the 7-2 ante-post favourite, although Godolphin's Ruling Court is closing in at the head of the market at a top-priced 5-1 after his 2,000 Guineas success at Newmarket on Saturday. The change means the Derby field will be known at 10am on Wednesday, June 4, although the remaining races on the card, and those on the Betfred Oaks card the day before, including the fillies' Classic, will retain their 48-hour declaration stage. All rider bookings will need to be finalised by 1pm on June 4, with the draw ceremony taking place two hours earlier at Epsom's Picturehouse, a cinema in the centre of the town. Asked at the Curragh about the change, O'Brien, who has won the Derby on ten occasions, starting with Galileo in 2001 and most recently with City Of Troy last June, said the decision was not his preference and pointed to the potential for a lot to change in 72 hours. O'Brien said: "It's not a good thing for us anyway. It's never a good thing when you train horses but, listen, they do what they have to do. "What I would say is that 12 hours is a long time in a racehorse's life, never mind 72. I'm not complaining as that is what they've decided to do and they have their reasons, but it wouldn't have been our preference to do something like that. "I think they’ll give it a go and see what is going to happen. The problem about doing it like that is that you could have non-runners. Horses might not be right and lots of things can change." The potential field for the Derby will be narrowed down on Tuesday at the first scratchings stage. Supplementary entries can be added to the Derby on June 2, although it will cost connections £75,000 to do so. |
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Apologies it’s not posted my reply twice!
 Thank you Penzance it’s much appreciated, I had this info but lost upon my move. Can now tally up. The quote is almost a warning of non runners! Bettors beware! Books go non runner no bet and 1/4 of the odds too if you truly want to get the publics attention back for the Epsom Derby! |
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In order of most winners from stats kindly provided by Penzance )
March foals 18 wins (7) Damyus 20 March 16/1 (8) Stay True 31 March 33/1 Hotazhell 31 March 40/1 Push The Limit 24 March 50/1 Feb Foals 8 wins Ruling Court 8 Feb 4/1 Pride Of Arras 25 Feb 5/1 Wimbledon Hawkeye 24 Feb 25/1 Puppet Master 6 Feb 50/1 April Foals Delacroix 2 April 11/4 (8) Lambourn 24 April 20/1 Mount Kilimanjaro 15 April 20/1 (7) Swagman 10 April 33/1 (7) Purview 1 April 33/1 May Foals 4 Twain 12 May 12/1 Stanhope Gardens 11 May 33/1 Jan foals 3 Lion In Winter 31 Jan 5/1 Date period of winners on 1986 - 2024 Make of it what you will but there are better 5/1 shots daily without the trainer talking about another race over a completely different distance! Kincsem when one of those gets 10 ;) If there’s a field that big! |
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* April foals 5 wins
* Jan Foals 3 wins |
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Money for The Lion In Winter. He's into fav (7/2, 4/1) once again; Delacroix is taking a walk. Is it the bookies' ruse or a a commercial decision? The Lion In Winter needs to win here. The French Derby is inferior (breeding-wise). He's also missed the 2000G.
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As you saw yesterday lots piled in because of connections, price aside are you, have you backed him? As said before not for me, being able to say that I backed the derby winner means nothing. There’s plenty of other races to focus on without having to ask the questions that you’ve posed.
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Coral cannot split The Lion In Winter, Ruling Court and Delacroix at the head of the betting and make them 7-2 co-favourites.
Another race with multiple favs! |
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Yes, I'm on The Lion In Winter at 20/1......5/1 in singles and multiples. I've lay off about 20%, just hoping he turns up like City Of Troy post a dismal 2000G similarly, Auguste Rodin.
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Mainly with 'Denise', a few with 'billie', sly and ladcrookes' eg winners of 1000G and/or 2000G; footie eg PSG/Ars; SJP; and King George. Epsom = £500+ (just TLIW) given the dodgy vagaries that could ensure. Post Epsom (hopefully still going) onto the others. I'm also trying to build another one with Epsom Oaks/Queen Anne/SJP & possibly Jan Bruegel (if Kyprios is an absentee - do not fancy Illinois.
But, the reward usually does not justify the efforts and time deployed. This is merely a pastime and a game these days. |
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Thanks Impossible I wasn’t sure if you used shops, it’s no bother if you’re out and about living in a city, I’m in countryside only have one local shop.
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Can you say why you don’t fancy Illinois? It’s not a face like.
I prefer the old way of having slips, before the relocation I had every shop on the high street, so could shop around easily within a small area, going to different shops. It was like Noah’s Ark they came in twos since the high street shops shut down. Sad way to see a once nice area go, hence the move! Tents started appearing on the pavement also, one of the pubs was shut due to a flea infestation!  |