And there were excuses for both horses

trainers always have excuses. in this case aidan couldn't decide if it was the stalls at newmarket or a flawed preparation. it can't have been both.

Not that it could've persuaded me to back him at today's price, but COT did take the eye in the Derby preliminaries. Whereas at Newmarket he looked ordinary before and during the race. My guess is the horse just hadn't come to himself, for want of a better phrase.

i guess this could be the new strategy for ballydoyle - whose 3yos tend to tail off as the season goes on. leave a bit to work on for the guineas using it as a prep for epsom so the season doesn't last as long

i think none of aidan's derby winners has won a race in europe after august

Auguste Rodin won one last season lol. Don't be lazy now.

You can blame the trainer for not having him fully fit at Newmarket and he has admitted his error but you can't really blame him for last year as there are legitimate excuses. The ground was atrocious and he was knocked into early on and was out the back in a race run at a crawl by Guineas standards.

Auguste Rodin has proved to be very unreliable snice then and seems to have a mind of his own. Sometimes he runs his race and sometimes he is just not interested.

City Of Troy won - that's a fact. However, I do not think Moore rode a good race. He was right at the back with traffic issue; he won because City Of Troy is a much better horse with stamina than Ambiente Friendly.

Nonsense, it was a perfect ride from where he was drawn. He allowed the horse to settle beautifully in a lovely rhythm.

High Chaparral won a Breeders Cup Turf as well fyi.I don't think the Arc is of a particular concern to them. Can be run on soft ground at the end of a season and I'm sure that America is of more interest especially with having American Pharoah and Justify on their roster as well as the humongous prize money on offer.

Really looking forward to seeing this horse on proper safe fast ground. I hope true racing fans are also excited.

Correct Jack Bauer"24". Rode the perfect race. Only Impossible123 would think he didn't. Clueless.

High Chaparral won a Breeders Cup Turf as well fyi. I don't think the Arc is of a particular concern to them

I did say europe - turf racing is weaker in the us plus medication can be used to mask a thoroughbred's fragility

the arc ought to be of concern to them - it's the world's most prestigious turf race. tricky to win though if you've primed your horse for epsom although oxx and gosden have both done it twice

dancing brave was pilot error, guy had him spot onin all his races, i dont count the usa race as relevant , but like i say his trainer had him spot on for craven, gns derby, eclipse kg and arc, the best horse ive seen

Dancing Brave was a great horse and beat a great field but he didn't win the Derby and Arc did he. I thought his Derby defeat added to his reputation somewhat  and certainly did not "destroy" his CV in my eyes. So if he wins 10 Group 1s COT's reputation is already destroyed. Utter nonsense.

aidan said st mark's basilica was the best horse they ever had

It was just a good Derby winning performance. Something wins the Derby every year. Some are better than others. No need to get all X Factor style hyperbole until something proves itself excellent.

"It was just a good Derby winning performance" That's according to you 6 bags of sugar. Other people may have a different view.

Aiden O'brien,his faith never wavered in the wnr today.
Great trainer.

City of Troy looked so good before the race and was very calm.  By contrast, nearly everything else looked agitated/sweating or just walked awkwardly/stiffly.  Kevin Blake dismissed any stamina doubts about COT with his stride pattern analysis (which had been spot on in the Oaks). Then Michael Tabor comes on and says that COT has a much better chance than Illinois and that he has backed City of Troy.   Well, in the space of 10 minutes, I decided not to be a layer, after all, and greened up for a small profit.
But it is still too early to say whether he is AOB's greatest as the opposition in the Derby was weaker than normal and most didn't look right before the race.
I've no complaints about AOB or Coolmore because they put their reputations on the line over this horse and he delivered for them.

And yet, nobody has called put the ride on the runner-up.
I do not think for one minute he would have beaten City Of Troy,  but he was motionless when Moore was driving on.
Huge error in my opinion.

As a backer of AF with a saver on COT, I am confident that the best horse won, and might well have won by further over further. However, as Figgis said "It was just a good Derby winning performance" which has been given a RPR of 125 (+1 PB), somewhat higher than I have it on the clock.

AOB was totally vindicated, but to say that COT is his best Derby winner is not born out (yet) by the evidence using ratings and times. However, that is not to say that eventually  the horse may not prove to be his best. We shall see. I have not seen the horse in the flesh, but from comments from those who have , he may be a better performer than looker. A Mill Reef rather than a Nijinsky?

Just to be clear, I am not stubbornly being negative about COT being a great horse just to back up my earlier view of him. Before the Guineas I was sceptical about Timeform's rating of Notable Speech. After seeing what he did at Newmarket I now think they've underrated him and he's the best 3yo miler I've seen since Kingman. I don't care about proving a past opinion right, it's getting it right next time that I'm concerned with. We will see if he lives up to my expectations.

I thought the Dewhurst pointed to COT being up to winning an average Derby if staying. I just didn't see how it made him a potential great. I don't think anyone can say the bare form/time of the Derby marks him down as outstanding. People might say he was winning within himself and is capable of much more. That's fair enough, maybe they'll be proved right, but that's not how I see it currently.

For me, it's not just about the level a horse shows when winning the Derby, it's about their profile and the progress they've made from 2 to 3, and the likelihood of more to come. For instance, I had Motivator and Galileo on the same Derby winning figure. When Motivator failed to win again people started to revise their earlier high view of him. In my opinion that would be as nonsensical as putting down Carlos Alcaraz's Wimbledon win because he hasn't hit those highs since. Motivator was a good Derby winner but crucially hadn't improved from 2 to 3. He then deteriorated. Galileo showed he had improved from 2 to 3 and went on to back up his Derby form.

Getting back to COT, I actually have the Derby as his best performance yet, up 2lbs from the Dewhurst. However, I wouldn't call that significant improvement, and believe it was due to the nature of how fast the race was run and how he was ridden, rather than any physical progress on his part. The Irish Derby is usually only a Gp1 in name only nowadays, and most years just a training exercise for a Coolmore Epsom winner. But when we get to the proper Gp1s I think COT is more likely to be a Motivator than a Galileo.

I welcome any contradictory views that think he's going to be a bit special.