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Looks like no Douvan to me.
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I'm loving the shameless way that insiders seem to be taking a few hundred quid on this market from withdrawals. Can any ante post market be trusted?
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No mention of anything yet on the Racing Post or Sporting Life sites- what do their people do all day.
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I just posted a sarcastic thread on Horse Racing for this.
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Anyone backing Douvan after all his problems at odds on antepost needs their heads examining anyway.
The bookies knew all along it wasn't 100% he was running imho. |
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Agreed but that isnt the point.
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It is highlighting bookies get info from trainers before you and the fact sponsoring trainers leads to no less than insider trading. Info that can be exploited for their financial gain making announcements in favour of backing certain horses. Their are a lot of gullible punters will have believed the one sided book announcement the other day from bookmakers and taken odds on Douvan only to see him 6/4 a day or so later.
Gullible punters deserve protection from insider trading also. It is obvious the BHA dont mind this new phenomenon of sponsored trainers. It is going to lead to some unsavoury headlines for them in future which will damage racing for anyone even thinking of betting on it. |
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Lets take a fictional example.
Trainer A announces his high profile top class horse H1 is on target for a race R1 even though he is trying to scare off opposition so his other horse H2 can go for the race hopefully with lesser opposition. This is all above board in a sporting context but not punter friendly. The problem is trainer A is sponsored by a bookmaker and gives them advance information on running plans and horse wellbeing ahead of anyone else so the information is not in the public domain. The bookmaker runs a ‘blog’ for the trainer which is not ideal when the bookmaker can profit from such information before an announce,ent is made. Profits can be made nationwide by bookies encouraging punters to back horse H1 for race R1 knowing horse H2 is likely to be the stable horse that turns up so they have that short price as well. They might even push horse H1 out taking more money before any announcement is made via a blog or from any other official source. This scenario could completely blow racing out of peoples consciousness and persuade them to stop betting on it if and when it goes too far. |
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I have no problem at all with anything Mullins has said or done, even if he really is trying to fool punters or help bookies - betting before the final decs is always at your own risk.
But no mention of the drift and betting pattern on here on the Racing Post website - that's scandalous. |
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If it is to help bookies you should have a problem with that. You would be stung eventually if not this time. Strategically for horse placement to weaken opposition is different. There may be less scrupulous trainers in future taking this scenario further than is acceptable to a betting public and racing will pay.
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Also if you were a reporter would you want to peddle misinformation to suit bookies. Over time it wouldnt leave your own credibility or your articles too popular.
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The market has now settled down and although Douvan is only vying for favouritism now, rather than being odds on, there is money on the lay side and UDS has drifted back out so it looks like running plans are as they were.
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The problem, if there is one, is that the authorities regard betting as entertainment. If it were treated as a form of investment and the BHA was serious about maintaining integrity they couldn't possibly allow commercial relationships between race horse connections and bookmakers.
On the other hand, such arrangements have probably always existed and are very hard to police of covert, so maybe the public are better off when the relationships are known, and you can form your own opinion? I think most bookmakers maintain content with a view to it being independent, because they feel that if punters have more information they place more bets. I'm sure the value of Mr Richie's business is far greater than he could ever make by encouraging a trainer to "put us away" here and there, and if he were exposes as doing this his business could be killed overnight. We'll see what happens tomorrow. Most likely he was a bit disappointing in his last bit of work or coughed or at least there was a rumor to similar effect. Added to which there was considerably bullishness from the Tizzard camp all over the papers this morning, possibly leading to the impression that Douvan was out. If D has been definitely rules out you would have expected an announcement by now. If there isn't one, and he's not declared tomorrow, then Mullins and Richie will probably not feel safe on a racecourse ever again. |
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Back into clear favourite now and UDS drifted like a barge. Another Mullins masterclass.
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I wouldn't be fully sure things are ok. Mullins camp must have some doubts or Douvan didn't work that great yesterday to lead to drift. In fairness it's probably the right price now....6/4 the pair.
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Bookies trying to persuade you to back him at odds on then virtually an i mediate drift out by 50%. Is that just a coincidence?
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Maybe a blog needs updating.
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Politologue e/w first 3 is probably the safest bet at the moment. Not much value in the top 2 now.
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Support has dried up over night for Douvan again. Only £25 waiting to be matched under 5/2, while Foxy has £700 waiting for 6/4.
No support for UDS either, so both could miss the race which would be a shame for us Sandown patrons and the race. |
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Maybe the bad weather is worrying them regarding getting horses to the UK?
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I have a small ante post interest in Politologue so watching the Mullins fiasco with interest.
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No Douvan or no Un De Sceaux!!
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Race re-opened after only 4 declared
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This has plumbed new depths, and the industry needs to do something about it. Other sports have a conduct charge of "bringing the sport into disrepute" and that's what Racing needs. The rules are not there, but this is as bad as doping imo, and we need a regime where a trainer can lose his licence for this. To add insult to injury, Mullins has tweeted that the horse worked on Thursday morning and disappointed him, and that's what he's not declared. It's just not acceptable to lie to the public in this way, it is quite obvious from the market they changed their mind at least 24 hrs earlier. Having made an firm statement that he was a definite runner a week ago, he has a responsibility to update the public the minute that changes.
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No Special Tiara either. Obviously a bigger price runner yet no one moaning that there was no indication from De Bromhead that he was not going to run or why he wasn't declared?
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Final 7 for the @Betfair Tingle Creek - prices to follow : Ar Mad, Fox Norton, Politologue, Sir Valentino, Ordinary World, San Benedeto, Charbel
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The @Betfair Tingle Creek: 4/6 Fox Norton, 5/2 Politologue, 11/1 Charbel, 12/1 Ar Mad, 12/1 San Benedeto, 16/1 Ordinary World, 25/ Sir Valentino
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amazing how the market knows the hoss will dissapoint in its work the following day.
FFS whats he going to do in his work 2 days b4 a G1 . A canter ' best. WHat a load of BOLLAX Mr Mullins. Punters taken 4 mugs on a daily basis. |
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Well said geoff m & BarryM
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Pure lies from the mullins camp, I was told Tuesday that the horse was lame and would not run!
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Poor unclepuncle has been tied in knots by this market saying what a master Willie is as UDS was firming up while saying take part at your own risk.
Well he was right about one thing at least. |
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What should concern you all most is the bookies knew before the press.
They deliberately tried to coerce punters into backing Douvan at a shade of odds on a couple of days ago obviously with the knowledge he wouldnt run. That is corrupt imo. The relationship between trainers and bookies cannot be allowed to be financial via sponsorship for information. The old days where you bet antepost at bookies half the time putting your money on a non runner are returning. Betfair improved that by introducing transparency to antepost markets where we could all see what was going to run or not due to market strength before having a bet. The bookies now know before us again on running plans due to sponsored trainers. |
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eric_morris 20 Nov 17 23:43 Joined: 27 Jun 10 | Topic/replies: 4,506 | Blogger: eric_morris's blog
I am actually in favour now of trainers like Mullins, Tizzard and Henderson shutting tfu in terms of targets as it is more likely to make their sponsors and bookie owners money than punters. I have no regard for any of them and they dont owe us anything. Short term antepost markets should be binned as they are open to to much insider training on here and disinformation from connections isnt going to help either. Leaves a bad taste in the mouth after years of punting i am not too bothered for the future of the game when punters are treat with such contempt |
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a trainer was "sponsored" shall we say previously .Its just more transparent nowadays. Nowt changes.
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No it is an acceptance of malpractice. Just because it wasnt public before didnt mean it was acceptable then either. It should be explicitly banned, any financial payments from bookmaker to trainer should be logged and transferred via the BHA for transparency.
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Lets say trainer A accepts payments from bookmaker B and the deal is a percentage of antepost profits.
Now lets say trainer A continually advertises his horse as on target for an antepost race and doesnt withdraw him until a day or two before the race to maximise antepost non runner profit for the bookie and increasing his own payout as he is on a percentage of antepost profit. Surely if the BHA were to be intermediary of payments from bookie to trainer they would have to act and investigate relationships where such patterns occurred bringing betting on racing into disrepute. |
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Eric-morris, you are barking up the wrong tree here. Trainers have the absolute right to not run any horse if they so choose before final decs. That's how it has been for about 200 years now and that's how it should continue.
Exchange markets have only been around for less than 20 years so if you are not happy with the rules of racing and their impact on ante-post betting then you should give up betting ante-post and/or campaign for the end to ante-post betting altogether or on the exchanges. Leave those of us who accept the laws of ante-post betting and the risks involved to get on with it because we all have the option to wait till the overnight markets are up. |
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I dont care what trainers do but any financial transactions between them and bookmakers needs to be transferred vis the BHA to prevent malpractice.
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‘Sponsored trainers’ is NOT 200 years old.
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Yes i am in favour of short term antepost markets being binned due to disinformation from trainers, sometimes deliberate.
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