To me Farhh is not a soft ground 10f oss .

breadbutter, Farhh has a hefty knee action and will devour the soft ground imo.

Agree with plenty of Figgis' earlier comments re Farhh, his win in the Thirsk Hunt Cup (times indeed suggested soft ground, not official good to soft) off 100 was a massive effort on the clock and told you he was already bordering on Group 1 class.... He missed the start badly that day and still bolted up by 6 lengths under an apprentice... and missed the start badly under Dettori next time in the Group 1 Prince Of Wales when 3rd to So You Think but for which he may have won. Given way too much to do by Dettori in the Eclipse next time when touched off by Nathaniel and then clocked a career best time figure imo when 7 lengths 2nd to an imperious Frankel (arguably his own lifetime best) in the Juddmonte at York over 88 yards further than 10f.

Wouldn't go as far as saying the Lockinge was the best performance this season, but he won easily there with plenty in hand and that still leaves him 3lbs clear of anything the opposition have achieved this season imo.... and 6lbs short of his own personal best in a very light career for a 5yo.

9 career starts and despite continual interruptions with injuries in all 4 seasons raced, he's shown up for the gig every time and not once run a bad race. He must be very tough in mind.

Farhh's sire Pivotal needs no introduction, whilst his dam won plenty in soft ground in Germany including the second of two Group 1 victories over 12f as a 3yo. Absolutely 100% certain that this horse goes on soft ground..... and stays every yard of 10f

just think it is too fast for a 10f soft ground horse if that makes sense ,but agree it does have a high  action .

think its run behind SYT at ascot was flatering ,they went very fast and it held up off the pace and got stopped .

dont rate the lochinge and it was a long time ago ,it did look improved but what did it beat ?

pivotal ...SMP trained winner at ascot and produces winners at any distance on any ground ...

yea you could be right ....backed farhh in all those races he was beaten in and am probably just sick of it

mon the old snail

Ped, funny you say he was 6lbs short of his best in the Lockinge, as I rated it exactly a 6lbs improvement, I only rated him 127 last year (Timeform scale).

Pivotal done me for fortunes when it beat Mind Games ...  your bringing back bad memories and shattering  me confidence in the snail

stick with the fastest snail in history, bread

.... and so the winner is, Brigust?

I've no idea Pedro. I've got myself in a right pickle over this one. I will be happy to come out just a little but up.

What do you think then?

Pretty close to how I see it. I started off trying to pinch it with CDA and should have laid off when his price dropped but then thought it looked like a 2 horse race so added Farhh. AOB added ROW to my surprise and now I've ended up having a saver on Muk and Hill as well. Fortunately my savers are outsiders. If I come out 35% up I will be happy.

Wrong about the first bit but correct about the 2nd Mr D. You know how it is. You have a good day then see a wild long shot in a future race. They have come off but not this time. AOB said if he didn't run in the Champion he would would run in a Listed race at Dundalk last night. I thought I would get my money back but AOB got me again.

Well Morandi would be a big loser for me and ruin my week so good luck.

In Brigust's world a horse could beat a Gp3 horse by 10 lengths but rated not much good because the horse he beat was only Gp3 class, what a pity the handicappers don't live in the same world, the game would be so much easier

Quite wrong Figgis trying to score points to prove an unprovable point. It's beneath you. Scoff if you like but it does you no favours.

I hate to rain on your parade guys but goodness knows what you will do when a proper horse comes along.

Ah right, and that post of yours was in no way scoffing at other people's opinions in a condescending manner I suppose?

I judge a horse by what it beats not by what beats him because you have no idea how much the winner has in hand but you do know  the horses he beats are beaten.

And that post is almost child like in its naivety as far as handicapping goes.

You blood y snob Figgis. This is a horse racing forum. What a condescending attitude. 
I was pointing out the facts AFTER your drooling over Farhh's achievements. I wasn't, like you, saying 'in your world'.

Rubbish AT. What makes you guys talk such rubbish? I have always, always, always stated Frankel was a great racehorse but it isn't my fault if the best horse he beats is a 6 year old gelding. (the Chief BHA handicappers words not mine). So stop trying to score imaginary points.

If you think I am alone about the decline in British and US racing you obviously don't read the papers.
The fact that my views differ from yours is the problem. I get a great deal of fun from racing thank you very much but burying my head in the sand as if nothing is happening is something I am not about to do and I am far from alone.
Do you seriously think the handicappers do not assess a horse by what it beats? Do you?
I know Timeform are over rating everything to maintain their position but their decline is continual and it will remain to be so because you can only fool some of the people some of the time.

The 'muppets' word was yours, it certainly was not mine. But if you think someone questioning your opinion is not negotiable I will refrain from commenting on your threads.  You only have to say.

You have really excelled yourself on this thread Brigust. Not only have you aftertimed some ante-post prices on the front two favourites you are now saying you have backed 5 horses in total as savers. Fcuking shocking stuff.

breadand butter came in with a nice after time too and thought Frankel was a 3yo when he won the race. Geez we have some shrewdies on here.

I had one my biggest ever e/w bets on Farhh at 5/1 in the Lockinge, and I have similar views for today's race. Looks an e/w bet to nothing although I won't be going as big a stake this time. Despite his great record fresh, long layoffs are always a worry for me.

Farhh's record fresh is very good but all his wins have been at 8f after a long break. They ain't going to muck about in this race IMO and I think the ground (he's bred for it), plus the trip might find him out (stamina). If he was running in the QEII instead I would have been a backer because the way that race looks likely to be run would have suited him perfectly.

i am in agreement with Mr D,if dawn approach was under a different banner,i believe he goes for the QEII,thats not to say he wont run a race,just feel over ten he may come up short,but its what the game is about differing views,but keep it nice lads.lol

platini, what worries you about the layoff for Farhh today compared to the Lockinge, which was longer?