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2012 QIPCO 2000 GUINEAS:
2012 QIPCO 2000 GUINEAS:
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AH HA unclepuncle, exactly what I've posted on this thread! French Fifteen has been dismissed by some on here just because of a false run race which suited one horse. Laughable quotes of demolished and destroyed by Abtaal also posted. French Fifteen's turn of foot off a fast pace could prove decisive and the only other colt to have shown that kind of finish is Camelot.
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With Nephrite, comments after clearly suggest that they never had him in the mix and the only despatches from O'Brien prior to today with regards the Guineas alluded to Camelot and Power.
I can sure understand people's frustration with Coolmore, especially when O'Brien comes out and says after today that Nephrite 'would never stay a mile'... Would it have hurt to be clear that they didn't view him as a miler before? No. That race was a classic of it's type; money down late, a good price on the 'second string' and a readymade story for the beaten favourite. FWIW, I thought Nephrite travelled well into the race and could well be a sprinter of some potential, at odds with their other recent runners in the race. Either way, and it brings me no pleasure to say this, the NEPHRITE tickets are junk. |
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I really feel that the Dewhurst contained the winner of this and have felt so for a while. I'm on Parish Hall and backed Trumpet Major as a saver just before he won the other day. I'm happy to have those two running for me versus the field. Hannon really seems to have started positively this season with his three year olds.
All this money for yet another Ballydoyle runner that will be having it's first run of the season just makes the value for everything else IMO. |
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@unclepuncle -- you need to watch the Prix Djebel from this year (5 April) when French Fifteen narrowly beat Abtaal with Hermival back in third.
For what little it is worth, my current view is the winners of both our Guineas and the French Guineas are in those three, but who goes where, and will connections change their minds when they see what their rivals are doing? |
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@jair1970 re Nephrite:
Would it have hurt to be clear that they didn't view him as a miler before? No. That is where you are wrong. The answer is YES, it would have hurt. It has nothing to do with getting a better price on the second string, or with betting at all. Rather, it is all about the bloodstock market. Milers are worth more at stud than sprinters, and so it is worth seeing if Nephrite can stretch that bit further. But even if he can, all that good work would be undone if Aidan had previously announced Nephrite would not get a mile in a horsebox. That is why he says nothing. |
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Ramruna - I have watched the Djebel a few times, including yesterday just before I posted my last comment, and felt both horses ran nice trials - neither was exactly all out and it's perfectly possible that the form could be reversed. However I still feel based on his impressive Group 1 win last year that French Fifteen is the better horse for the challenges of New'mkt.
If Abtaal were mine I'd be saving him for the Longchamp version, though of course they may run scared of Dabarism and feel New'mkt is an easier target. |
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Camelot will be suited by all the rain we are having. IF there is soft in the going description then it will be more like a 9 furlong race, but even money is truly shocking and a muggs price. It really is.
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@Ramruna
Well, yeah that's obviously the reason, but it doesn't mean that as punters we can have a gripe now and then about the paucity of information that comes out of the stable via media channels! |
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camelot evens with lads, you can get 8/11 on here for a place,
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Re; Abtaal ,French Fifteen in Thomas Byron
For sure Abtaal set slow fractions but French Fifteen was well postioned just in behind him and when Abtaal quickened French fifteen seemed unable to cope with it. The fact that abtaal was able to put significant distance between himself and his rivals off a slow pace in a short distance suggests he put in a very quick sectional time and that the horse has plenty of pace. To me Abtaal has the right pace /stamina blend for 1m at Newmarket though i'm willing to accept the possiblity that he may prove not good enough and that i've mis-judged his class level. Hopefully he'll line up at Newmarket and the race should reveal all. |
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O'Brein 2,000 guineas runners in recent years.
2011 Rod O'connor 8/1 11th probably unfit* 2010 St nic Abbey evens 6th lacked enough pace for 1m. Fencing master 14/1 7th not good enough Viscount nelson 40/1 11th semi fit plus needed further. 2009 Rip van winkle 9/2 4th not fully fit Mastercraftsman 7/1 5th not fully fit 2008 Henrythenavigator 11/1 1st good winner Plan 33/1 8th not good enough * subjective personal interpretations. Other interesting O'brein runners have been One cool cat who went of at a short price yet was very much overrrated and ended up sprinting and the more than useful George Washington,Hawk wing and Rock of Gibralter. |
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fwiw, for the market readers, todays exchange positives are the fancied french runners and Most Improved (into 12.5 from 17).
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Tinkler, is there anywhere online to find the sectionals?
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Not that I know of Michrich.
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For sure Abtaal set slow fractions but French Fifteen was well postioned just in behind him and when Abtaal quickened French fifteen seemed unable to cope with it.
Yes, French Fifteen was positioned just behind Abtaal but you missed out that FF pulled aggressively for nearly 2 furlongs because the pace was so slow. Horses that pull this hard in a race hardly ever win or even finish with any purpose, this was the main reason FF couldn't cope with the change of pace. So to finish this once and for all, the slow pace and French Fifteen not settling made Abtaal's victory look better than it actually was! If the race was run at solid fractions and Abtaal won by 3 lengths then I wouldn't have any problems with the result but I think there are a few wearing rose tinted spectacles or just watching the last 3 furlongs of the race. |
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I didn't miss FF pulling and though it will have cost him something at the end (though he still ran on well enough to get second) I think it's highly unlikely it was the difference between victory and defeat.
If Abtaal had ground out a 3 length victory of a sound pace I would have a been less impressed ,its the quickening away from horses that themselves were quickening that I found impressive. Good luck anyway. |
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Tinkler, I'm not suggesting you missed it when you watched the race, you just missed it out in your post.
As unclepuncle said, it was a bit of a joke race and all it demonstrated was Abtaal can quicken well off a slow pace, which I agree with you on is good thing to have in your locker. Abtaal looks a talented colt and connections obviously think a lot of him because he's gone off favorite in every race he's run. I'm sure his presence will be felt in the 2000 Guineas but the Thomas Byron isn't a race I would have any confidence in regarding form between the two colts. We will just have to agree to disagree on this one. All the best. |
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I thought French Fifteen won a shade cosily LTO. He only received two smacks of the whip and a fast paced 8f race should suit, especially if it turns up soft.
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Backed Abtaal yesterday & filled with confidence after reading HM
 Have fancy prices on Camelot for epsom & just hope Camelot finishes a running on 2nd to 4th |
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Dragon Pulse,can still be backed at big odds,
I know but think it was alot bigger few days ago. Are they thinking of coming over,thought they were'nt? tx |
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Delzangles added: “Dragon Pulse will go to the French 2000 Guineas, but Hermival is likely to head to Newmarket for the QIPCO 2000 Guineas. He has improved a lot for his run in the Djebel and he should run well.”
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tx
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French Fifteen positive on here the last 24 hours. In from 17 to 13.5.
Most Improved back out to 15 now having touched single figures again. Im going to stop mentioning these fluctuations because it aint really my bag. I only tend to take notice when the move is sharp,dramatic and has a bit of weight behind it. All these £20 bets here and there are just the norm. |
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MI-N/R,now.
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Jean-Claude Rouget's Abtaal remains on course for a tilt at the Qipco 2000 Guineas at Newmarket on Saturday week.
The Hamdan Al Maktoum-owned colt was narrowly beaten in the Prix Djebel at Maisons-Laffitte earlier on his comeback, but is a best priced 12-1 for the Rowley Mile Classic at Headquarters. The owner's racing manager, Angus Gold, feels the three-year-old will strip fitter with that seasonal reappearance under his belt and has confirmed Christophe Soumillon will once again be in the saddle. "He has always been due to come to Newmarket and as far as I know that remains the case," said Gold. "Jean-Claude is happy with him at the moment and we were all pleased with his comeback run. "Seven furlongs was always going to be the minimum distance he would want to go and he was staying on all the way to the line, which was pleasing. "He is a horse who will stay further so a good, strong pace on a galloping track like Newmarket should suit him well. "I saw him earlier in the year and he is a big, gross horse who takes a lot of getting fit, so you'd like to think he will improve a lot from his last run. "I hope the rain stops because while he has won with cut in the ground, he's a good actioned horse and I think he'd be most effective on a sound surface." The same owner, trainer and jockey combination will also be represented in the following day's 1000 Guineas, with comfortable Prix Imprudence winner Mashoora also set to make the journey from France. "She is coming over as well and she was very good in her trial. She didn't win by far but she travelled well and Christophe always looked comfortable," Gold added. "Her pedigree suggests she wouldn't mind soft ground, but having said that, unlike the colt I think a mile would be the furthest she'd want to go, so we wouldn't want really stamina sapping ground for her." |
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All my eggs are in the Abtaal basket now. Let the ramping commence!
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Go on Abtaal. I'd agree with Goldie's ground concerns though.....
BM, if you haven't backed Hermival yet I'd advise a saver. He could well improve past the pair of them and is still cheap to get on side. Allez France imo. |
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With the fav at that price its got to be "Le Combo Jumelle"
 ay "Mon Ami"as Del Boy might have said  Be warned, the French can bet into de Pool in the Guineas, so id given "Le swerve" to exactas |
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The Mahmood Al Zarooni-trained pair of Mighty Ambition & Mandaean remain engaged in the G1 QIPCO 2000 Guineas after the latest forfeit stage
Still there The Headmaster |
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Godolphin Racing @godolphin
Mandaean, Mighty Ambition & Mariner’s Cross, all trained by M Al Zarooni, have been entered in the G1 St James’s Palace Stks at |
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THE QIPCO 2000 GUINEAS (THE 204TH RUNNING)
Class 1, Group 1, part of the QIPCO British Champions Series, £350,000 total prize fund. Saturday, May 5, 2012. For 3-y-o entire colts & fillies, one mile. Weights: colts 9st; fillies 8st 11lb. Entries closed March 6, entries revealed March 7 (63 entries). Scratchings deadline April 24 (26 remain), five-day confirmation stage & £30,000 supplementary entry stage April 30, final declaration stage, 10.00am, May 3. Form figures supplied by Weatherbys and are correct up to and including the racing of Monday, April 23. Form Horse Owner Trainer 211-2 ABTAAL (USA) Hamdan Al Maktoum Jean Claude Rouget FR (1)222-2 BOOMERANG BOB (IRE) R J Tufft John Hills 12- BORN TO SEA (IRE) Christopher Tsui John Oxx IRE 114-3 BRONTERRE Michael Pescod Richard Hannon 11- CAMELOT Derrick Smith, Sue Magnier, Michael Tabor Aidan O'Brien IRE 231150-1 CASPAR NETSCHER Charles Wentworth Alan McCabe 211151-5 COUPE DE VILLE (IRE) Macdonald, Wright, Creed, Smith & Jiggins Richard Hannon 11221-2 CRIUS (IRE) Titan Assets Richard Hannon 2112-1 DRAGON PULSE (IRE) Tan Kai Chah Mikel Delzangles FR 21123- FARRAAJ (IRE) Sheikh Ahmed Al Maktoum Roger Varian 313- FENCING (USA) George Strawbridge John Gosden 111121-1 FRENCH FIFTEEN (FR) H H Sheikh Mohammed Bin Khalifa Al Thani Nicolas Clement FR 1044-21 FURNER'S GREEN (IRE) Derrick Smith, Sue Magnier, Michael Tabor Aidan O'Brien IRE 1-3 HERMIVAL (IRE) Gerard Augustin-Normand Mikel Delzangles FR 2-11 LIGHT HEAVY (IRE) Jackie Bolger Jim Bolger IRE 11- MANDAEAN Godolphin Mahmood Al Zarooni 1-5 MIGHTY AMBITION (USA) Godolphin Mahmood Al Zarooni 12021- PARISH HALL (IRE) Jackie Bolger Jim Bolger IRE 111212- POWER Michael Tabor, Derrick Smith & Sue Magnier Aidan O'Brien IRE 4012-4 PTOLEMAIC Fiona Denniff Bryan Smart 1010-4 REBELLIOUS GUEST John Guest Racing George Margarson (1)1402-4 REDACT (IRE) Kennet Valley Thoroughbreds III Richard Hannon 311320-(5) RED DUKE (USA) Maxilead Limited John Quinn 15(3)362- SAIGON Patrick Dalby & Richard Schuster James Toller 1- TOP OFFER Khalid Abdulla Roger Charlton 021415-1 TRUMPET MAJOR (IRE) John Manley Richard Hannon 26 entries remain after April 24 scratchings deadline 6 Irish-trained 4 French-trained THE FOLLOWING 37 ENTRIES HAVE BEEN SCRATCHED: AKEED MOFEED, ALJAMAAHEER (IRE), AMONG EQUALS, APOLLO (IRE), B FIFTY TWO (IRE), BEAUFORT TWELVE, BORN TO SURPRISE, CHANDLERY (IRE), CRUSADE (USA), DADDY LONG LEGS (USA), EASTERN SUN (IRE), EKTIHAAM (IRE), FARHAAN (USA), FOXTROT ROMEO (IRE), GATEPOST (IRE), HARBOUR WATCH (IRE), HAZAZ (IRE), HEAVY WEIGHT (IRE), KINGLET (USA), MATUSALEN (SPA), MIBLISH, MINSTRELS GALLERY (IRE), MOST IMPROVED (IRE), NAWWAAR (USA), NEPHRITE, PEARL MIX (IRE), PERIPHERY (USA), PRINCE ALZAIN (USA), RAYVIN BLACK, REPLY (IRE), ROCKINANTE (FR), SOLAR DEITY (IRE), SPIRITUAL STAR (IRE), TAIGAN (USA), TALES OF GRIMM (USA), WROTE (IRE), ZUMBI (IRE) |
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63 rnrs on SL,112 on here with MI and Akeed Mofeed @1000.
Both out why don't they take them out? |
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Nt sure tbh - maybe an opportunity to supplement em yet or somethin
 Seems strange not to trim the market to the entries! |
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five-day confirmation stage & £30,000 supplementary entry stage April 30,
yup |
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Leading Qipco 2000 Guineas contender Top Offer remains on course for the season's opening Classic after pleasing trainer Roger Charlton in a workout on Tuesday.
The Dansili colt was hugely impressive on his sole juvenile start in a Newbury maiden and he will head to Newmarket with just that run under his belt after soft ground prevented him running in last weekend's Greenham Stakes. Charlton elected to conduct the rest of the three-year-old's preparations at home and with the strong work now done, the Beckhampton handler is just hoping to keep his charge in one piece for the next 10 days. "We worked him yesterday with his normal lead horse. It was just routine stuff, but I was very happy with how it went," said Charlton. "All the hard work is done for him now. It's just a case of keeping him ticking over between now and Saturday week - we're freewheeling from here on in." Charlton is hoping the current wet spell subsides before too long as Top Offer would clearly be better suited by a sound surface at Headquarters. He said: "The sun is out at the moment, but we've had a fair dollop of rain this morning and we're going to get more tomorrow I believe and it could continue into the weekend. "Looking at the long-range forecasts, it could dry up by next Tuesday or Wednesday, so let's hope that's the case." |
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Dragon Pulse still in aswell.
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yes , betfair wont take them out, coz they might get supp back in, but im sure they could mark them out somehow , so everyone knows theyve been scratched .
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thanks for the list bjg
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Dragon Pulse still in aswell.
Again must be because of all the rain - hope he has a change of mind tbh |
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Who knows with trainers change minds from one day to next ala Gosden!
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