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Seville - Derby
Seville - Derby
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Replies: 212
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Agree with Sint, Recital much more likely to run over 10f than Seville imo.
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Seville is going to Epsom.
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''Ramruma watching different game imo''
I'd like to take that back on reflection. If you watched the Dante not knowing anything about the horses involved, i can see how you might feel Seville shaped like he may not have stayed. However, in my experience, there is practically zero chance that a horse with Seville's pedigree would have failed to stay a slowly-run 10f given he settled like a lamb. |
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"If you watched the Dante not knowing anything about the horses" is the key phrase here
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Seville didn't stay???? Which wally made that comment?
That horse stays all day long, Seville was outspeeded in the Dante by Calrton House a star of the future. That's why Seville got beat. See what I mean, you get some right muppets on this forum. Open your eyes! |
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You're blocked!
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lol - who the hell is this muppet (Duncan idaho) ?
I never knew he existed lol. |
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When are we likely to get the nod from Ballydoyle? It seems Pour Moi is confirmed, but the betting has been very tentative around Seville and Recital...
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I think punters should stop mentioning that odious outfit. They want everyone talking about them to add to the hype. They're like divas arriving late on stage. It doesn't matter how many times you all ask the same question, they simply won't tell anyone their plans until as late as possible. They're the only people in racing that i've ever had a real dislike of. Just accept that any ante post race with their horses involved is ruined.
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i think it's fair enough that they should wait until after Pour Moi's trip to Epsom today to commit to any decision. they have selection probs cos they have several candidates....why does this make them odious?
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agree graeame, see my thread on contrast between cecil and this mob, also duncan you say after today to commit , try thursday next week before we hear anything from these really disliked outfit.
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they regularly have 3 or 4 candidates for a big race....most other trainers have 1 or 2 max...there's your difference
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"i think it's fair enough that they should wait until after Pour Moi's trip to Epsom today to commit to any decision. they have selection probs cos they have several candidates....why does this make them odious?"
I don't believe for a second that they don't know who is running at Epsom. This game isn't rocket science. They do this time and time again. They also know when their well backed horses are not going to run a race, without even saying so as Rondetto stated on another thread. I think his example was SNA being battered in heavily on his debut at long odds on, only for it to get beat by donkeys,and improve massively beyond recognition for his following race. We could be here all day talking about how everyone despises them, but i'd be contradicting myself by even talking about them. I'm not going to reply again on this thread about them, as British trainers deserve more time for this British classic. |
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What you believe is of little consequence. You'd be first on here whinging if they were to announce which horses were going for Epsom and something was to happen in the meantime and they changed their mind.
The Derby wouldn't be half of what it is without them. |
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i honestly enjoyed racing better without them,
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Same here Elis, and there are many like us. Try not to make up rubbish to substantiate your point Tavaris. I don't whinge about horses that don't run. It's not called ante post betting for nothing. Many of us have legitimate problems with some of these trainers, and O'brien incorporates every single thing we dislike about trainers. We're entitled to our opinions, just like you are yours. I'd be more than happy to see a British classic without their horses.
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Very weak today....
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Betfair market would indicate Seville and Roderic O'Connor to France.
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Surely not. I understand one may go but not both. |
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With Pour Moi heading to Epsom, I was thinking Ballydoyle might send two to France, you don't think he'll send two Sint?
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crazy to send Seville to France...horse is gagging for 1½m...dont see why you'd send a horse for palpably the wrong race just cos you had other runners in the right race
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obrien's best hope is Recital, and with an Obrian Vs Fabre contest going on behind the scenes, theres no way O Brian would suggest sending Recital to France
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Viva, tbh I thought Seville was crying out for another 2 furlongs, so would be surprised if they sent him to france. But then again we dont know how fit he was the other day at York, some of Aidans have improved out of all recognition this season.
I personally thought Recital would be more suited to France, if they were going to send one over, because he appears to have more speed than Seville and it'll be more conducive to winning over 10f. I'd be very,very surprised if they sent them both over but im only financially involved in Recital. If he goes, so be it. |
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I agree with Graeme to a certain extent. This always happens re the Derby...not so others Group 1s. Their is always this kinda wait and see who is going to turn up and who isn't. I do think they know exactly who they are running but i think they could be scratching around for Jockeys to ride them in this current case.
Also with Coolmore their are commercial issue's at Heart. Especially with Galileo having such a massive lead in the sire's championship they may see it as a perfect time to get Montjeu up the ladder by sending 2 Montjeu's to Epsom as French Prize Money does not count in the sire's race. The Prizemoney in The Derby is immense and so they run so many to get those sire's up to the top of the Championship. I think Recital will run as will Menphis Tenensse and that Rag Galileo that won the Chester trial. Seville looks like he may head to france....Soullimon prob would have given them a big idea what feel he gave them and so he may keep the ride in France if he isn't engaged elsewhere. |
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Sint I agree Recital is quicker than Seville, but personally feel he'll appreciate the 12f just as much as Seville would. I just think he's a better horse full stop, quicker and more stamina.
Plus they keep saying they're only going to send one horse to France, Recital has had 2 pacemakers in all of his starts so far. If he was going to France I think they'd have to take Memphis Tennessee and/or another horse to make sure the 10f is ran to suit Recital. |
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To me Seville is a good example of a follower and not a leader. Its not in his nature to win races unless
the opposition is poor as in his maiden win. In the Dante he ran along with the third horse then when Carlton House came along he even lent in towards him whilst following him. Of all the horses in the Derby he's the most likely to come second. If I could get 3/1 on him coming 2nd or 3rd I'd probably have a decent bet as he's very reliable and looks well balanced also. |
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Not so sure Tinkler. In his maiden win and the RP Trophy he raced alone and they wanted him to have a lead in the Dante because of that. I am sure he will win Group 1 races just not sure it will be the Derby. Have to say it is seriously tiresome not knowing which will run. Don't know what AOB was doing at Breakfast with Stars - he tolds us nothing we didnt already know. The racing world has to rely on Maureen's tweets ffs!! Pathetic.
Personally would be amazed if Seville didnt run. Clearly crying out for mile and a half and, as previously stated, a very uncomplicated, well balanced colt. In total contrast to Recital I might add - cannot see him handling Epsom. |
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I respect the 'early warning system' Betfair no doubt is but i never fell for the WORKFORCE patter last year about him not running in the Derby and i'm certainly not falling for it this year with SEVILLE,this horse has NO other target other than the Irish Derby after he's won at Epsom,i took the 12's earlier and am taking 11's now!Seamie will ride and he will power clear 2 out just like High Chapparal did for Mr Tabor!
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everyone says which1 or 2 is going to the french, why do we assume this it wouldnt surprise me that the bloody lot go to epsom, and imo if he does send one itll be rod to longchamp
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agreed, think seville, recital and two pacemakers will go to epsom, roderic to france
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come on, i thought one of you would have spotted my deliberate error on last post by now
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Chantilly!!!
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Looks like he runs at Epsom.
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Woderwic going to France, so that's one down...
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Joniblake
He raced alone in the rp trophy but at no stage was he in front he just ran along to the side of them and when Casamento went on he just followed him just as he did Carlton House in the Dante. I don't count maiden wins when looking for horse Characteristics as their often very weak. Seville looks to have a lot of natural ability but I feel this mentality of following is a big Flaw for him. He may grow out of it but personally I think he'll run up a lot of places in the top races this year. He also appears to keep a little bit back in his races which should keep him in good stead for running a lot. I agree Recital is unlikley to be suited by Epsom and looks an Irish Derby type(similar to dylan thomas). |
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I am hoping for quite a forceful ride on Seville, kicking on for home quite early on. Last thing he wants is trying to outsprint some of the others.
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My initial reaction after the race was that Seville was the 2nd string behind Recital and that he'd struggle to reverse form with Carlton House, but when you think about it objectively, as i'm on Recital at 14's, there is plenty of reason to believe why Seville could reverse the form imo. It was such an unsatisfactory race.
As mentioned further down on the thread, Jockeys bookings will be enlightening imo and a big positive to whichever horse gets Seamus Heffernan. He rides Epsom very well and did so with At First Sight last year. In Fact, I plan to back whatever he rides in the Oaks & Derby if I have not backed them already.  |
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I'm sure Carlton House will improve for 12f, but I think Seville NEEDS 12f and the faster they go the better. I'm fairly confident Seville will turn around the form with Carlton House come Derby day.
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I have a funny feeling Treasure Beach will do best of the O'Brien qaurtet with Nathaniel another decent e/w shout against the market leaders.
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