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Frankel
Frankel
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Replies: 456
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danehill often gets horses that stay much further than he did though celtic
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the double at 50/1 is a shocking price.
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looks quite generous to me [;)]
bank of frankel runs this sat, currently paying around 70 percent interest  |
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Anyone know what price is he for the double and with who at the moment ??
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yes, I'd like some of that 'shocking' price if anyone can direct me to it...?
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you telling me he is actually less than 50/1 right now for the Guineas & Derby double ??
Oh My God |
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sint, if he wins the guineas he'd be about 6-4 for the derby. and he's about 8-1 for the guineas. so 50-1 for the double hardly looks daft
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Sea The Stars was 7/2 after HQ, MP. It depends whether you think the current prices are correct.. About ten days ago it was 140/1 for the double..
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yeah but sea the stars wasn't as hyped as this beast [;)]
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25/1 with H*lls
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@ this stage of their careers Sea The Stars had given no hint whatsoever of becoming a superstar
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as an a/p backer..i hope he hoses up sat'd....but i would'nt touch odds-on anything @ ascot....some just dont seem to run to form there nowdays..
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frankel will never be beat. a machine of the highest order
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Are you new here?
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Sometimes your posts are a bit annoying dananders.
I loved Frankel's first run. Off the bridle through the 2/3 point of the race he came back on the bit cruising 1f out then just pushed out won nicely. It was the fact Queally couldn't pull him up after the line that told me to back him for the Derby, and the fact there are encouraging signs he'll be effective at 1m4f. Also has a lovely nice ground action so won't have been best on soft ground unlike Nataniel who would have loved that ground on debut (As proved when Genius Beast got closer on better ground next time out). I piled on after that race at 33/1, but i'm less confident now after his 2nd run...seemed to show too much pace, i'm really not sure now although wouldn't take bet back for anything. Having said that I'll try to not forget his debut, he may be a rare talent who sprints and stays? But anyway your never be beat saying is a bit daft....although you aren't completly daft as I rememer you fancying Wigmore for the JS |
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^ man I sound wrecked, best go to bed.
(encouraging signs from breeding) (Nathaniel) |
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race massively cut up. frankel aside looks like a dreadful renewal (slim shadey has the next highest rating says it all really) and he's frightened pretty much everyone off.
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In terms again of breeding and Frankel's staying capacity, he did not look like a miler when, at 2, he stayed on well in a bog over a mile.
If you look at his pedigree in some detail, his sire (Galileo) is out of Urban Sea, the winner of an Arc in bottomless ground. His sire was Sadlers Wells - a major influence for stamina. Galileo was bred to get 2 miles and probably would have won a Gold Cup if given the chance. Hardly a son or daughter of Galileo fails to stay quite well and its really not surprising. New Approach was not supposed to stay, but of course did stay very well. The dam of Frankel is Kind, who prved best at 7 furlongs and was not a pure sprinter. She was by Danehill, who has sired stayers himself. The grand dam is a half sister to 3 others that stayed well, one of these stayed 12 furlongs despite being from speedy lines and onther stayed 2 miles. I repeat on balance, frankel should stay 12 furlongs very well and deserves to be quoted for the Derby. Its interesting that Henry started him over a mile, he is no fool and he must have known the stamina he has. However he seems not just to stay well, but have serious speed too. The proof is in the pudding as they say, and although he has already proved that he will get 10 furlongs at 3 from his first run, there is a chance of course he may not get 12. However I reckon he will, and if he did win the 2000 Guineas there will be the same ostriches arguing that he has too much speed too win at Epsom, just like they did before Sea The Stars trotted up and won an Arc. I am of the view that Frankel is far more likely to prove to be not good enough to win group 1's rather than to show he is a non-stayer at Epsom. He has tons to prove, however he may just be very good indeed and the first triple crown winner proper since Nijinsky. |
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4/9.
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Since everybody else is expressing an opinion based on the totally inadeqaute evidence available here's mine
 This is an extremely important horse for trainer and connections. There is no way HC will rush his 3 year-old preparation for the Guineas. Everything will be directed towards the Derby. |
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I don't get your logic about distance starting points, saying Henry knew he has stamina so started there. He looked green to me rather than stamina laden, and beat Nathaniel for toe not by staying better. Frankel's next races were the Champagne Stakes at Doncaster or the one he took in, so I'm not sure Henry was using his stamina on debut, it was probably a convenient starting point for the horse. If he needed a mile, the Champagne Stakes wouldn't have been in his mind.
Sea The Stars started over 7f and went to 1m at 2, but was still good enough to win a Guineas after being bred to stay. Makfi started his career over 7f in very heavy ground and he won a Guineas. Henrythenavigator started with a winning display over 7f, then went 6f, but won a Guineas, he was bred to stay 1m4f arguably. Refuse To Bend won over 7f on his debut and won a Guineas. Golan won over 7f on a stiff track on his debut and then won the Guineas and he was definitely bred to stay 1m4f. Regarding Galileo, here is what his trainer said after his debut win as a 2yo over 1m in heavy ground - 28Oct00 Leopardstown ( 8 Hy ,RPR113 ) "He's definitely top class and is an exciting prospect for next year. He stays well and also has plenty of pace, so I wouldn't rule him out as a Guineas horse, although he is bred to get the Derby trip. We had big plans for him this season, but he coughed for most of the year." - Aidan O'Brien Also, where do you get Kind was best at 7f? That's clearly not true. Her best three RPRs, the ones in the 100s, came over 5f and 6f. Her win at 7f was awarded an RPR of 82, some 20lb below her best efforts. She ran over 7f twice early in her career, but ran her last nine races over either 5f or 6f, so clearly owner/trainer/jockey felt she was a sprinter pure and simple, why wouldn't they have run her over 7f again otherwise? Also, every one of those nine runs after her 7f win got a higher RPR than that success, which strongly suggests she was a sprinter. Roger Charlton said after her 6f win one day - 02Jun04 Kempton ( 6 Gd ,RPR83 ) She`s not really meant to be a six-furlong horse if you look at the dam-side of her pedigree, and she would do better if she settled. We`ll probably give her a bit of a break now and some time before her next race. - Roger Charlton, trainer After winning over 5f 19Sep04 Hamilton ( 5 Sft ,RPR91 ) I have begged Roger and Teddy (Grimthorpe, owner Khalid Abdullah's racing manager) to try her over five furlongs, (for the first time) the stronger pace over this trip suits her as she travels so well and can quicken, it was a good effort. - Richard Hughes, jockey Like I say, you won't convince me he'll stay a properly run 1m4f. |
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Do they run him on the slow ground, he seemed to love the faster stuff last time out. Miss this and wait for Donny hoping for quicker ground instead?
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Celtic Sun
I know you are not to be for convincing but I enjoy a challenge. Kind turned out to be a sprinter despite her pedigree, however the stamina is in her dna and it will also be in Frankel's. Regards Galileo, I really don't think your quotes of the stable about him mean anything at all. I remember all the hype about him having "so much speed". He was bred so stoutly that connections were just worried that he would not be attractive as a stallion. so they set about a long and ludicrous PR campaign. They even, quite ridiculously entered him for the July Cup. The fact is that Galileo was a fine horse over a mile and a half, and would have been a marvelous St Leger winner. Instead they tried to pretend he was all speed, and went for the 10 furlong Irish champion stakes, in which he was not quick enough to beat Fantastic Light. Al that PR guff about Galileo being fast enough to win a July Cup was a waste of time anyway. he has proven a brilliant stallion, imparting, as I say not just bags of stamina, but loads of speed too. however he is unlikely to be siring many milers or sprinters and Frankel is neither of these. |
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Kind turned out to be a sprinter despite her pedigree, however the stamina is in her dna and it will also be in Frankel's.
So why didn't Kind stay? You're summerising on things that haven't proved to be true. Why are so 100% sure he won't take after her? How is it not possible that you'll be saying next year 'Frankel turned out to be a miler despite his pedigree', which on the dam side, his actual dam, suggests he might be. Also, is it not interesting that Frankel runs in a race today sponsored by Juddmonte? Does anyone think this swayed their decison to run at Ascot and probably not go for the Dewhurst? Produce a star today that wins this race and goes on to superstardom, and the calibre of the Royal Lodge goes much higher. |
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not sure frankel will handle this soft ground could be a lay.
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wow!
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thats the dgs bollx.
opposition dire but the style was awesome |
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GONNA BE A LONG WINTER |
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I'd be cautious about taking very short odds for next years classics though, form on soft ground is often very dodgy.
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COME ON!!! HRAC comparing him to Wollow
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Henry Cecil doesn't think he'll stay the Derby trip.
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If he progresses from this he travels, he easily stays a mile already on soft ground already, he quickens and quickens he can emulate Sea The Stars and do the Guineas and Derby double ... This horse actually looks better than Sea The Stars. Hoping he can get to the Arc would love to see HRAC win that.
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made a huge arazi move around the bend there
BEAST |
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mythical prince Joined: 20 Sep 06
Replies: 1623 22 Sep 10 17:07 sint, if he wins the guineas he'd be about 6-4 for the derby. and he's about 8-1 for the guineas. so 50-1 for the double hardly looks daft or he could do that and be incredibly short prices for both |
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Have we ever seen a more impressive 2yo or one with so many superlatives said and written about him?
Well Hannon had one in the summer that won the Coventry, but can't rememeber its name now. No, being serious, I think you would have to go back all the way to 2009 and St Nicholas Abbey (who still hasn't won a race as a 3yo  ) to find a horse hyped up so much. |
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Did I really hear 2/1 Guineas, 7/2 Derby and 6/1 double?
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"If he progresses from this he travels, he easily stays a mile already on soft ground already, he quickens and quickens he can emulate Sea The Stars and do the Guineas and Derby double ... This horse actually looks better than Sea The Stars. Hoping he can get to the Arc would love to see HRAC win that. "
Come on behave yourself. That's the third team we've heard that since STS went to stud. |
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.Marksman. Joined: 13 Jul 10
Replies: 134 25 Sep 10 14:49 Have we ever seen a more impressive 2yo or one with so many superlatives said and written about him? yes, arazi. celtic swing and zafonic and possibly xaar as well, but not for many years. |
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Plenty of dig in the ground today chaps.
No denying he is horse of immense talent.. but one mile at newmarket on Good to Firm is a different ball game. |