johnnyrant Joined: 14 Feb 07
Replies: 5561 21 Sep 10 15:07  

I've followed Flat racing for over 25 years. Call it intuition but Frankel's first time out win told me he was very decent - winning cosily despite hating the ground. His win second time out screamed that he is something very special indeed. It's all guesswork at such an early stage of his career but I genuinely believe he could be one of those very rare racehorses who turns out to be in the Dancing Brave/Sea The Stars category.


Well done fellow believers on the big prices you have procured for next year. Really hope, above all for HRAC, that Frankel stays fit and sound and does the Triple Crown next year.

He He He,  here we go again!  I must get back into this laying after being away.

I kid you not this horse reminds me of Dancing Brave let's pray he stays sound over the winter.

I had 33s Teofilo this horse is different class.

i have to agree with graeme here (never thought i'd say that again[;)] ) let's not get carried away with ourselves here. frankel is a beast no doubt, but he's clearly very well developed already and we've seen in the past how horses can catch up from two to three.

as for the triple crown, I very much doubt the st leger would even be on his radar. incidentally, comparisons with teofilo are probably erroneous, as he was never as impressive as frankel was today.

The funny thing was he wasn't much more impressive than he was at Doncaster to my eyes. When I saw him at donny I was like, wow that was impressive. But I suppose theres a world of difference between parading your talents on a quiet friday afternoon at donny in a three runner egg and spoon race, and doing the same at Ascot on a high profile saturday card, in a group three.

Hence the collapse in price for the Guineas and Derby.

Royal Lodge Group 2. HRAC hinted at putting him away earlier rather than later might be a good idea he has done enough in his last 2 runs and will have a long campaign next season.

don't think white moonstone ran the final two furlongs much slower than frankel, my guess is frankel beat trees and the front free in the fillies mile are all very smart.

be interesting to compare his last two furlongs to the qe2 later in the day.

Fishing? Early pace of the Royal Lodge a dawdle compared to the fillies and still 1.2 seconds quicker. The colts were value for more considering this. You want to knock that then you will always find fault.

I rest my case.

i think it looks very good dark, henry might have expressed his reservations about him staying but difficult to think he won't at least be tempted to have a go. or are you being sarcastic?[;)]

frankel ran the final three furlongs just under a second quicker than poets voice did in the qe2, albeit off a much slower gallop. he's unquestionably a group one winner in waiting, that could well be the dewhurst as henry said in the interview that he prefers that route to the racing post, as he wants to finish him for the season quicker.

it also wouldn't surprise me if he did'nt him again this year. but he'll surely want frankel to finish the year as champion 2 year old. the dewhurst would bring an interesting clash with saamid, and possibly pathfork as well. then we'll really get a good idea of how good he is.

Cheers both.

I'm just kicking myself. I looked long and hard at the same price for the guineas and eventually convinced myself it wasnt a realistic target. Really really stupid.

MP - seriously I wasnt being sarcastic. That post-race interview with HC was not what I wanted to hear at all.

Just unbelievable, beautiful looking horse too.

The arazi-like move around the turn was awesome.

Will be the best since the greatest of them all, Sea The Stars.

Even after what we saw today, even after what Henry Cecil said about him staying (which is so obvious), people still think he's going to win the Derby?

The comparison to Workforce makes no sense, Workforce won one maiden as a juvenile, they had no proper idea what they had. Henry has indicated that he wants the Dewhurst next, back over 7f, they know exactly what they have here.

The only worry at the moment from what I can see is that he is probably physically ahead of most at two, and sometimes a winter starts levelling things out as a 3yo. I think Alhaarth is a good example. Big, quality 2yo that didn't quite do it at 3.

When HRAC says Frankel is the best 2-y-o he has trained since Wallow – and Henry is a gentleman trainer not known for talking up his horses – and you see what Frankel did round the turn accelerating past them like they were trees, off a slow pace, that didn't suit, and still clocks a time a second quicker than the Filles' Mile winner, and on ground slower than ideal for him... I think there are a fair few clues there.
Clutching at straws to say he has beaten nothing of note and top notch 2-y-os don't always develop into top notch 3-y-os. That's stating the obvious. People were no doubt saying that about Zafonic.
He could tread on a stone and go lame on the eve of the Guineas... The gamble you are taking is on him making it to the post. 5-2 is quite generous imo, and given the way he was able to settle today off a dawdling pace suggests to me he has every chance of staying the Derby trip.

Sea The Stars started over 7f and went to 1m at 2, but was still good enough to win a Guineas after being bred to stay.


despite people (even the trainer) saying he (may not) wouldn't stay 12f......if you can read pedigrees you knew he had every chance.

The comparison to workforce is exactly the same,connections had serious doubt's....read his pedigree.....he had every chance of staying.
it's all opinions at this point,....but frankel on pedigree has every chance of staying.

And then you COULD start......didn't really stay but his class get's him home......

"I don't believe in ante-post - a lot can happen between now and then," the trainer said when asked for his reaction to the bookmakers' short Classic quotes. "I'd question whether he'll get the Derby trip, I really would.

"He's out of a mare [Kind] who's very, very fast and the female is the dominant sex. He's got a lot of class and could easily be a Guineas horse. His three-parts brother Bullet Train is more a mile-and-a-quarter horse, so you would question it [the Derby distance of 1m4f]."

Rip up those ante post vouchers?
French Derby anyone?

;)

you're prepared to question john oxx....but not henry cecil?

picture editor wins the derby on the bridle.