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Helleborine
Helleborine
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Helleborine quickened nicely but seemed to be outstayed to me. Credit to the winner. Will that ability to quicken be an advantage in the spring? Depends on the weather
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Hard race for both
Better ground would help the french filly more imo. |
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Nice to have 8/1 the field for a classic at this time of the season. Definitely a case of being able to back your judgement and still get a decent price.
p.s. Respect as always to James. She may not have won today but it was still one hell of a good shout so early in the season. I doubt anyone will be tearing up their AP slips just yet. |
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ground beat her imo
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Well said DD, couldn't agree more
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I'd definitely make Helleborine the more likely 1,000 winner but unless or until Madame Head says she is definitely aiming her at New'mkt it's impossible to have a bet.
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Helleborine is the speedier filly and seemed to be outstayed by the winner in today's conditions. With that experience under her belt and on quicker ground I would be hopeful that Helleborine would gain her revenge. They are two smart fillies. Criquette was keen to aim Helleborine at the Guineas before today's race and I hope that's still the plan.
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when did she say that james? did not read it anywhere. good news if right. thanks
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She expressed a preference for the Guineas when interviewed by Nick Luck on RUK. The owner's racing manager Teddy Grimthorpe seemed pleased with her Boussac performance.
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Yes, she seems to love the English Guineas.
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Top priced 10/1 james both Helleborine and Misty For Me. Probably about right at this stage would you say?
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sintonian 04 Oct 10 18:28
Yes, she seems to love the English Guineas. It's just "The Guineas." |
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She looks the one for the English Pouliches ;)
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SOF, I marginally prefer Helleborine over Misty For Me for the Guineas. O'Brien's filly is very talented and very tough, but I think that on faster ground Helleborine's speed and turn of foot will enable her to reverse the Boussac form. Lad brokes make Helleborine 8/1, with Misty For Me 10/1, and I think those prices are about right.
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A fantastic thread and every thing a perfect forum thread should be
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Good stuff james, you're right. Hey let's hope they both do well over the winter
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hear hear!
this threads so good! cant add nor argue so anyone able to tell me the last filly to win the 1000, who was unraced as a 2yo? 1000 pieces of chocolate for the first correct reply* |
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There has been no recent news about Helleborine, but I thought I'd post the following comments made by trainer Criquette Head-Maarek a few days after the Prix Marcel Boussac, as widely reported on the web (here is the version published on the Sportinglife site):
Criquette Head-Maarek believes Helleborine could become her fifth 1000 Guineas winner next May following her fine effort in defeat at Longchamp on Sunday. The two-year-old was defending an unbeaten record in the Prix Marcel Boussac but after travelling ominously well for much of the contest, she could not pass Aidan O'Brien's tough filly Misty For Me. Head-Maarek, who has trained Ma Biche (1983), Ravinella (1988), Hatoof (1992) and this year Special Duty (2010) to take Classic glory at Newmarket, is far from despondent however, and believes there is still plenty to look forward to. "She looks very well and she ran a very good race," said the French trainer. "She came very fast, very quickly and maybe came a little bit too soon going too fast. She's got a tremendous turn of foot, but the winner must be a very good filly also. I thought our filly was going to make it but the winner went again - it was nothing to be ashamed of. "She won't run again this year but we will enter her in the 1000 Guineas at Newmarket, that is for sure. We will also put her in the French Guineas and then decide where we are going to go, but the English Guineas is a race I like and she is the kind of filly for that race if I can have her in good form. I think she will be better on better ground. If we go for the Guineas she will have a prep race in the Prix Imprudence at Maisons-Laffitte in April. All my horses that have won the Guineas have had a prep race there because the timing is perfect." |
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James
Thank you for all the information and opinions you have shared with us throughout 2010. Have a very Happy (and hopefully profitable) New Year. |
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thanks for that james, i've done my book on the 1000gns, will probably tighten it up nearer the time,their is not a lot between the pricipals at the moment, but i hope Helleborine can improve 2 or 3 lengths on better ground to go on and win. if Memory or Midnight Cloud make the line up, i will definitely up the ante on them. you highlighted the winner last year and have a sound chance of following up in 2011, i hope so, keep up the good work, your posts are always worth reading, with reasoned views. all the best for the coming year. cheers.
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Great thread James and gives us something to look forward to in 2011.
My only concern would be that Madame ED usually sends then to Newmarket as two year olds, the only one she didnt was quite a fortunate winner. |
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Think Misty For Me was impressive last time as she seems to idle a little and pull out what is necessary, she has a lot of class and will be very difficult to beat at Newmarket if fit and well. Helleborine had every chance last time dont get the same feel for her as Special Duty, she does travel very well but not sure how strongly she can finish from quite a way out at Newmarket. Special Duty showed tremendous resolve to get up both in the English and French Guineas just didnt like the way Helleborine didnt have either the speed or heart for it to try and get past Misty For Me.
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when I say get up I mean challenging to the line obviously.
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Special Duty showed tremendous resolve to get up both in the English and French Guineas
In the Stewards room????? |
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Is that the Lets ignore the clarification post of the year award to zilzal1?
Special Duty was never afraid of a tussle and made ground hand over fist at the close of her races especially in the French, whereas Helleborine quit pretty tamely behind Misty imo after travelling so well. Would want a filly with more resolve at Newmarket. |
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Special Duty seemed to have an aversion to being 1st past the post throughout her 3yo season and was a very fortunate horse.
A very very average classic winner. Hard race to weigh up, although Hannon putting Memory away early bodes well, also if Havant comes to hand early she would be interesting. no bets yet though |
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Personally I would rate Special Duty a better 2 yo than Helleborine, the run against Champion miler Canford Cliffs was tremendous.
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She was a very lucky 3yo though, the 1000 form is complete and utter filth influemced by the draw, dont think the 1st 5 won a race between them afterwards
The French 1000 wasn't good either. imo Canford Cliffs may have had a off day then, Arcano didn't advertise the race very well |
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Dont agree, the French run showed her as being very classy imo, the ground she made up was tremendous from a poor ride. Ok Newmarket the draw bias was ridiculous but she didnt cause that and she ran v well and would have won if not taken across the course. I would argue she was unlucky in both Guineas. The major disappointment for me was the Falmouth where she was over the top imo.
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and I am not influenced by having v good bets on her in both Guineas, if you are not objective you will lose at antepost.
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Both poor races imo, even after her mid season break she didnt show much, in fact her form with Joanna remained the same as the spring.
None of her guineas winners really lasted that long though although Hatoof did better than most- if i remember correctly(dont think Ma Biche raced again, certainly not in the uk) |
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Think you are being too critical of Special Duty, depending on your point of view she was either lucky or unlucky but she had to be up there each time to be subject to luck and she did take down Canford Cliffs after his tremendous Coventry win, excuses aside.
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As i said before, was that the real Canford Cliffs though(i suspect Memory might be far better than her run as well)
Arcano hardly boosted the form either, imo she was a good 2yo who just about lasted the spring out. the cold spell we had last winter in jan and feb might have put our 3yo's a little behind the French ones although thats just a theory wish Mafki had been stuck over there as i would have had a monster f/c up  |
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Had a big treble Big Bucks 3s Kauto 7/4 Canford 6s (crap as he drifted due to wonder horse St Nick) still feel I got it right if it hadnt rained AND been watered FFS on the eve of the Gold Cup and Hannon had got Canford ready intime (debatable I know re settling but he wasnt ridden like a stayer in the Guineas imo). Still I have the best chance ever of hitting a quarter of a mill in combi trebles at Chelts this year, fingers crossed
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Ok, i'll bite
 I reckon you have Menorah and Binocular in the Champion and IC in the Gold Cup I was nearly tempted into backing Woolacome Folly but missed the 16-1 |
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Not doing the Gold Cup, there is no Best Mate around this year who loved the course, travelled like a Rolls Royce, jumped safer than any horse ever, and is tailor made for the race. Think Imperial Commander is strong fav however the delayed King George will make Kauto's prep much easier imo. If it rains or there is a strong pace on forget it with him.
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Like Helleborine. Think she'd have a good chance of reversing places. To my eye she blatantly could not quicken out of the mucky ground. The winner was game and tenacious and is class in her own right, but the runner-up looked to be more inconvencied by underfoot conditions that day.
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Ah go on, give us your Cheltenham horses eric !!!
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Ah, Rowley, you know it wont be until after the race by now....
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Too right on this one .. not getting involved in the usual circus on here, happy if it comes in long way to go yet have a few lesser combis also due to timing they would do.
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