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Put all this lot together on here ( many thanks to Bobby again ) and you had potentially the bet of the year and anyone reading through the thread on a regular basis would have almost been compelled to get involved. One of those rare occasions when we had all the pieces to the jigsaw puzzle firmly in our hands. GL.
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Bobby, thanks for response, I wouldnt detract in any way from your horse's victory, and as said previously, he is the New Champion and a very worthy one at that.
I am appauled to hear that NTD has received abusive emails, what is the point in that? Some people have no grace and no idea how to treat success and failure. From whom are these emails being sent? Punters, owners, trainers, media? Its a disgrace, and has no place in our sport or any other sport. Any news from Co Meath? do you still own the horse in question, and are the stable going to win the National? |
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One of the finest Gold Cup performances I've seen . . .a paste from my post on another thread which speculated on a potential rating of 182. . .
Steeplechasing 19 Mar 21:46 Imperial Commander's a perfect example of the dilemma that sometimes faces the handicapper. Whatever you rate him now, he is almost certainly 20lbs worse going right handed - not that he will be asked to to that again. For my money, he is better than 182 (left-handed, at least) because of his ability to reproduce the form of what looked to me a dyed-in-the-wool 21f Steeplechasing Cheltenham specialist (4 from 4, inc a Grade 1), to a top class Gold Cup on easing ground, finishing with quite a bit left in the tank to my eye. (He's be a fascinating prospect in the National - I doubt Bobby Dazzler would risk such a precious horse in that race but I think the NH fan and form analyst in him would be highly tempted). Only a truly top notch horse could excel in Grade 1s at 21 furlongs, and 26 and a half furlongs. Let's hope the misfortune that befell KS does nothing to dilute the perception of what Imperial Commander achieved. Thankfully, there is is his Haydock performance to fall back on and that offers every justification for the belief that he would have seen off the champion today too. It's likely any jockey would do a job on this horse, but I think Brennan has helped an awful lot in the making of him. His ride today was superb - the ride of the meeting for me. Having jumped off just in front, he popped the first and started getting the horse settled, easing him steadily from a length off the pace to three or four lengths off, seemingly determined not to let the horse get lit up in the front-running battle between Carruthers and Denman. And he did that perfectly, IC looking very relaxed coming down the hill for the first time, always just on the outside with a good view of his fences but never wide enough to lose significant ground. As they quickened up going away from the stands for the final time, Brennan didn't hesitate in urging the horse to take closer order and get back within a length of Denman, without getting IC lit up (the horse can be prone to that, imo). Keeping IC in very close touch then, he didn't actually ask him to start racing till they approached the third last and the horse responded readily, reaping the benefit of having such a relaxed ride up until then. From that point, it was pretty much no contest. From a personal preference viewpoint, I'd deduct one point from PB for smacking the horse as they rose at the last (I don't like to see it as I think it can break a horse's concentration); bar that, it was a master class. Nobody rides Cheltenham better than Paddy Brennan imo. Warmest congratulations to Our Friends in the North and credit to Bobby Dazzler who has been a poster on this forum for some time. I doubt that anyone involved with any horse, never mind one of Imperial Commander's talent, could have posted with the singular impartiality Bobby has always shown, nor the frankness, the forebearance with the uninformed advice and opinions of others (myself included), and his willingness to answer every question and share all information. Bobby D first came to my attention when tipping IC on here for the Paddy P in 2008. What kind of cert was he with 10st 7lb?! The decision to go for the Gold Cup was brave because he looked a cert for another Ryanair, the result of which must have generated a few 'Have we done the right thing?' conversations among the syndicate. That question was answered today. Who dares wins. Well done to owners, jockey and the slightly eccentric but hugely likeable and talented trainer. |
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I made the point about French breds taking a downward turn, sooner than British or Irish breds, but I put it down to them starting to 'chase at a younger age than ours do, indeed I backed IMP with that in mind at Haydock, (and I still think he won that) The Fellow didn't win a race after his gold cup at 9 years of age, if memory serves, and he was good to me.
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Should have said I made the point to a friend of mine on the day .
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Thanks BD - i agree, the horse is a tank, trained to the minute, i never really believed he'd do this when i saw him with my own eyes at newcastle, though i knew he was special that day (i'd also seen his bumper win, but NTD's horses always win bumpers being so straight 1st time out, and the second that day had a penalty - i reasoned!). i started believeing properly when he won those novice chases. He stays, travels and quickens. I'd no idea NTD had received abusive emails. That is shocking but i suppose there are many one-eyed fanatics out there.
As much as anything, whichever trainer we follow, it is great for jumping that others are having a go. how boring if it ended up the same connections constantly mopping up. That is what makes jumping heroic and unique. 3 great things about the gold cupfor me, besides the winner and his connections - KS getting back up, the reception carruthers and particularly denman received (being there, made the hairs stand up!), and (when i watched the tape after getting home this weekend) the jockeys concern for the brilliant KS after his fall during his RUK interview immediately afterwards. Thats what makes jumping spectacular and we certainly have a worthy, peerless champion, with brilliant connections. GL BD. |
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Cant remember if I posted last week or not but well done Bobby who would have thought that the horse laid in the place market of the Paddy Power would go onto win the Gold Cup LOL
Congratulations |
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1 Man - sorry missed the question. The stable in County Meath feel they will have a great chance in the national providing they get good ground. I have a few in County Meath at the moment and I assume the one you are thinking of is a very well handicapped second season chaser who will start off a mark of 136 - if so he will probably go Perth Gold Cup / Market Rasen Summer Plate and then Uttoxeter Summer National.
Steeplechasing - the point about Paddy Brennan is key, he is one of the very top horsemen in the game, and the secret is how much he believed in the horse. On the run up to Cheltenham he got some stick on this forum for being over optimisitic - rarely true of Paddy, he is an absolute realist. He just knew that in Khyber Kim and Imperial he had a fantastic chance of a sensational double. In fact to the contrary of the views on here anyone who listened to him along the way would not have gone far wrong. After the Paddy Power BHB 139 / 10 Stone 7 lbs - he made it absolutley clear he thought Imperial would go to the very top. He also made it plain after Haydock that the only race that mattered would be Cheltenham, and that he thought he could win it. Incredibly he got off the horse at Kempton and was even more confident he would win it. It is a massive boost when the jockey goes into the race confident he will beat Kauto Star and Denman - that belief allowed him to ride IC the way he did. He is a much easier ride over this trip, because as you pointed out over the shorter trips he tends to be easily set alight, over this trip he is able to settle and still show the acceleration up the hill. It is always difficult to assess form objectively when you are emotionally involved, and that is as true for me as it is for the supporters of KS and Denman. But even allowing for that I cannot see any form angle which says this was anything other than a top class Gold Cup. In fact it was absolutely run to suit Denman who responded by producing a mighty performance. The second circuit was 19 seconds faster than the first, turn that into lengths and it gives an indication as to how relentless the pace was once the burners were turned on. If Imperial had not been in the field and Denman had won the race by 23 lengths I would put every penny I have on the fact he would have been given his best ever rating - but when Imperial beats him by 7 lengths ?? I don't buy into any of the hype and personally believe the KS vs Denman nonsence is extremely detrimental to the sport. I noted the comments on other threads - and from where I was watching it is true that cheers escaped and were then supressed by wearers of the alternative scarves when Kauto fell. If they continue to go down similar lines this behaviour will proliferate and the sport we love will be dead as we know it. The great thing about this code is the champions do not run away to stud, they return as often as they can an ultimately fall on their shields. Where they are celebrated as if they had just won because those who really understand and feel for NH racing know what they have given so we can enjoy our sport. I just hope the Jockey Club In False Beards (or Racing For Change as they now like to be known) reflect on the ruins of this fiasco. All that money spent and TV audience down on last year. 25 years ago the bloodstock industry woke up to the fact that consistent inbreeding into the first four lines of the pedigree was detrimental to the quality of the breed - what a shame they didn't take heed of this issue when picking the Racing For Change Board ! |
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Great performance BD, never mind the Gold Cup next year, what about bursting that other Dit** bubble, I can hear the commentary now......................
and its Imperial Commander hard on the steel over the last hurdle whilst Ruby is rowing away on Big Bucks........................... haha ! |
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LOL @ BD re Racing For Change/ Bearded Jockey Club Execs!
Thanks for the pointers re the Meath horse, I was thinking of the same horse, it certainly appears to be well handicapped for a fruitfull Summer campaign. I wasnt aware that you had others, any names that we should make a note of? |
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1 Man - I am keen on Oscars Ballad who pulled up in a Down Royal bumper as he was a little weak but is quality, and Highland Flash who looks an exciting prospect.
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I'm quite shocked that NTD should get nasty emails. What does that say about the state of the sport's supporters?
Sounds like you're planning for the future Bobby, GL |
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Bobby for me Denman is not the same horse he was in the 07/08 season, physically more than anything; but hats off to your horse. However, i can't say personally who i think would win if he were up against the Denman of 08 - as i honestly don't have a clue (and i'm one of Denman's biggest fans). I always thought Denman is a superior horse to Kauto (the facts are he's jumped poorly 3/5 runs there and hit the deck twice) around Prestbury Park and i think Imperial's now earned that right to join him up there. What i can say however is that you are a credit to your horse as he is to you, the manner in which you conduct yourself on here and answer everyone's questions is impeccable and i wish you and your horses all the best luck in the future.
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Extreme Conviction 24 Mar 21:13
Bobby for me Denman is not the same horse he was in the 07/08 season, physically more than anything; but hats off to your horse. However, i can't say personally who i think would win if he were up against the Denman of 08 - as i honestly don't have a clue (and i'm one of Denman's biggest fans). I always thought Denman is a superior horse to Kauto (the facts are he's jumped poorly 3/5 runs there and hit the deck twice) around Prestbury Park and i think Imperial's now earned that right to join him up there. What i can say however is that you are a credit to your horse as he is to you, the manner in which you conduct yourself on here and answer everyone's questions is impeccable and i wish you and your horses all the best luck in the future. The facts are that Kauto Star has won two Gold Cups and Denman has only won one. ;) |
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2-1 Denman though ;)
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TDG - who would you say was better - Best Mate (3 GC) or KS (2 GC) - i personally have an open (ish) mind on that question...
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touche EC!! :D
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It's a tough one RC.
But, I personally think Kauto and Denman (and IC) at their peaks are better horses than Best Mate at his peak due to the horses that they respectively beat..... |
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Fair enough TDG, was just thinking the GC tally doesnt tell the full story re denman and ks (and i know this thread aint about that so i'll stop typing now...!)
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What do you think R C ?
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[TDG - ... this is only my opinion, off the top of my head, and i know this is the wrong thread, so no heated debates please!).. i'd say denman 08 is the best GC effort we've seen in a long time, IC possibly fractionally just short of it (though the dust hasnt settld yet). KS 1st GC race was iffy imo - a bunch at the bottom of the hill, it turned into a sprint (i'm sure someone will shoot me down for this) and last yrs win was visually v impressive on really decent ground but he beat a wrong horse in denman and Neptune who apparently went wrong in the race. Much of what was further behind that was ordinary (non-stayers or stayers who lacked the class to go then plugged into a place etc).
I think the requirements of the KG and GC are so different as to be almost incomensurate in measuring a horses relative greatness. I dont think KS wants a truly run GC test with cut in the ground (i've never thought he did, hence i've opposed it the last 3 yrs in the race). But KS is a great horse, i've always just thought he was a great speed horse rather than a great gold cup type stayer. |
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RC- I think you are spot on with your analysis above.
BD - thanks for the info. The horse in N.Ireland certainly looks like a 3m chaser in the making on breeding grounds alone. One wouldnt be rushing to back it on the bare form! Will he have a hurdling campaign, or straight over fences? I see that the Galileo Colt has commanded some fancy prices in the past. Is he now resident at Naunton? |
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Agree with the comments on ridiculous hype over Kauto Star v Denman, much of it driven by channel 4. Racing may have got additional media coverage but how can anyone new to the game be other than bemused watching the clothes of equine 'gods' so readily removed by the imperious Commander?
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1 Man - the Gallileo colt is now a gelding, he is at Mountop Stud in Belfast in pre-training - that is where all our young horses are educated. He will be heading for County Meath - Oscars Ballads bare form does not amount to much, but he is a quality individual who has shown a ton at home - he has needed time and has struggled to hold his condition - he is much better now - he is also heading for County Meath, so I feel a gamble coming on ! We have another two destined for NTD but to early to say what we expect of them - need another couple of months.
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Bobby, thanks again for sharing the info. Oscar is a sire that I love to follow so I will be looking out for the horse, and the gamble!! Good luck with these and all your horses. 1MAN
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Going to aintree BD ?
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Hi Bobby, any news on which horses NTD is going to run in the National and possible jockey bookings?
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Trainer away skiing Fastbear so no news yet - I may be at Aintree but cannot see IC being there
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Thanks bobby. The right move. :)
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Why the no-show for IC Bobby?
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Thanks BD.
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Stormey1 - Basically just short of time - cantered for the first time since gold cup today, looks stiff and leggy, and given what he has done for us this season he deserves a rest rather than being rushed into a race he doesnt need
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cheers Bobby
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(off topic, sorry)
JC, could you put the website up that I need to donate money to for the Cheltenham comp please. ta. B-) HAIL CAESAR |
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24.03.10 - THE GRAND NATIONAL
Twiston-Davies Bids for National Winner Number Three Trainer Nigel Twiston-Davies believes he has several live chances of becoming the first handler for 34 years to win the John Smiths Grand National and totesport Cheltenham Gold Cup in the same season. Twiston-Davies saddled Imperial Commander to score at Cheltenham on Friday and he has seven possible contenders heading to the John Smiths Grand National on Saturday, April 10, as he bids to emulate a feat last achieved by Fred Rimell in 1976. Beat The Boys, Ballyfitz, Ollie Magern, Irish Raptor, Razor Royale, Hello Bud and Knowhere all remained in the John Smiths Grand National after todays scratchings deadline for a race that their trainer has won twice before, with Earth Summit in 1998 and Bindaree in 2002. |
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thanks Bear ;)
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darling. ;)
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no real mention of bally again....gonna pi$$ up ;\
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Agreed ^ ;\
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Don't see how Irish Raptor can stay. Don't see how Ballyfitz can get round, and after his record this season NTD will get a lot of stick if he gets killed, he shouldn't be running imho. Razor Royal is the one of his for me. Would have liked Hello Bud on decent ground but we won't get that now. Shame, as he jumps the fences well and is one of the few horses who is a lot better at an extreme trip.
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