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A one off -Part 2.

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Replies: 791
By:
a bitofinterest
When: 13 Jul 10 23:00
no greening up during the front 9 please
By:
gmt
When: 13 Jul 10 23:04
Knight Rider......Not sure I get your strategy ? Your lays are way to dangerous,(surely selected low price lays is the way as opposed to laying all the top players),and your bets are almost immpossible.......the view I take is if a player of those you selected was 5 shots clear going into Sundays back 9 would he win,(on all known form)......the answer is no!.....Not being funny but do you follow the golf ?
By:
ericthecat
When: 13 Jul 10 23:06
Plain lazy exactly my plan, playing in near windless conditions thursday morning, 3 under at the turn, his price will tumble, then lay him and the open betting is paid for.

For the record I do not think he will win, but it will be a great watch!
By:
Just So
When: 13 Jul 10 23:09
good work frames and fair play KR, thats putting it on the line. playing for buttons myself but have a hunch Bjorn might go well at a price - track form and finally back on song of late.

look forward to following the thread as the week develops.
By:
gmt
When: 13 Jul 10 23:10
Dangerous.....Tiger usually starts an Open conservativly......just keeps the leaders in sight...I would have him down as +1 or +2 round 1.
By:
Wetherspoons
When: 13 Jul 10 23:13
^^^^^^
Mug Silly
By:
gmt
When: 13 Jul 10 23:13
Bjorn couldnt deal with winning when he played some of the greatest links golf ever seen, never been anywhere near that form since not even for 9 holes on a park course...sorry mate will struggle to get the cut line !
By:
Wetherspoons
When: 13 Jul 10 23:13
Ignore that last post please!!!!
By:
ericthecat
When: 13 Jul 10 23:20
gmt, just like the masters when he shot his lowest round? At present Tiger will take anything he can and know if there is no wind thursday morning its a great chance.

As I said I do not think he will win, but see value in 7-1 as his odds will tumble if the course is playing easy.
By:
gmt
When: 13 Jul 10 23:29
Bjorn isnt mentally capable in my view......he was young and confident and threw the Open away.......he is scarred from that and in my view has never recovered from it..good luck though.
By:
Wetherspoons
When: 13 Jul 10 23:45
There might be no wind but there has been very little wind in most of the tournaments he has played this year. I can't see him keeping out the bunkers this time round as his driving is pretty rank.
As i said he has also ditched his putter and the layers can't lay him fast enough. On current form he should really be 16-1 minimum. It's his reputation that makes him half of that.
By:
gmt
When: 13 Jul 10 23:54
Bottom line is he is 10 shots clear of the field,world number one,the course suits him,he is out to prove he is still the man and has nerves of steel to help........the negatives are he has not practised a lot lately and he is going through a divorce. May well make Sunday a non event if he gets into his stride early !
By:
double trouble
When: 14 Jul 10 00:03
On current form he should really be 16-1 minimum.

Are you still drinking Brains mate..


I think the drift is as much about the weather as it his current form, but it could well be calmer than the forecast not just worse and he loves St Andrews. The current forecast isnt awful by any means and if the wind doesnt blow the rest could be in big trouble.
By:
Chosen®
When: 14 Jul 10 00:36
Frames,

not sure it`s a good plan to keep laying someone because you detest them

Agree. This isn't about my attitude towards Woods as a human being, though. Rather, it's about what I observe in his record, play, demeanour, and general deportment since his personal life self-imploded. Oh yes; and the numbers.

I think it's reasonable to expect that TW will trade both bigger and shorter than sp in play, but I think the safer side of the trading play is the lay for starters - especially as he won't be winning.
By:
Chosen®
When: 14 Jul 10 00:48
gmt Joined: 10 Jan 02
gmt 13 Jul 10 23:04 
Knight Rider...Not being funny but do you follow the golf?

best line of the thread so far!
By:
alfee
When: 14 Jul 10 00:52
dont agree, anyone laying tiger above 7.2, is on the wrong of the fence, let me tell ya [;)]
By:
gmt
When: 14 Jul 10 01:00
Agree.........could have been tempted to go big at that price.......Tiger is incredible.......played the worst golf of his career in the masters and went close with no practise to speak of..........wifes gone now and his focus will be back to a degree........if he plys garbage and is the wrong side of the tee times he will still be top ten.
By:
Knight Rider
When: 14 Jul 10 01:15
gmt, yes I do follow the Golf from time to time Silly

My strategy as always is to back players I feel are too big, and lay players I feel are too short.  In this tournament, thanks to the large amount of "patriotic" money going on the European players, plus the (misguided imo) notion that European players have some sort of home advantage at the British Open, I tend to find that the PGA Tour players are overpriced.

You say that you wouldn't fancy any of the players I listed to do the business on Sunday but I think that's an insult to the calibre of players I have backed. 

OK D.A. Points is a donkey but I took a punt on him at 1000.  The others however, you have Stricker who is the 2nd- or 3rd-best player in the world with 5 wins in the last year or so, Yang who won a Major last year, Zach Johnson with 7 PGA Tour wins including the Masters, Kuchar who has been incredibly consistent since rebuilding his game 2-3 years ago (his renaissance reminds me a lot of Stricker, albeit a lot younger), plus Moore Fowler and Day who are all fantastic youngsters who probably have a massive future ahead of them.

These are all very very good players and to dismiss them so casually because they are "away from home" is dangerous I think.  Just look at the recent winners of the Open, before Harrington got involved an American won it pretty much every year, and it was back to business as usual last year with Cink.

In fact in the last 15 years it has been won by an American 11 times, compared to the Masters (10), US Open (9) and PGA (10).

If I lose I lose but I'd still be well up on the year and happy with my strategy.  Best of luck for the week Happy
By:
gmt
When: 14 Jul 10 01:25
Its all about taking a view of course. I have to say that over the last few years I have added some high priced Americans to my team and some have gone fairly close. But this year I feel the Europeans are playing far better than the Americans in general and the intricacies of links golf will highlight that superiority this time......I have a team of ten this year and the only player you could class as an American is Weir........and he only squeezed in as I like his ability to move the ball around.Woods of course may hose up here.......but I am confident the top tem will only be seen by him and Mickleson who is surely going to play well this time around.
By:
Wicked Whisper
When: 14 Jul 10 01:26
lol gmt.
By:
saxon farm
When: 14 Jul 10 02:02
gmt: A fine appraisal, you obviously know the time of day.
Indeed, Mike Weir is better than most with his ability to fade or draw at will.
I just doubt he can control the trajectory, to keep it low enough, if it does get too blowy.
GL.
By:
Aussie Driver
When: 14 Jul 10 02:20
Interesting to read some of the books being set up on here for this week, great thread.

One question for KR - do you trade heavily throughout the event, being from early Thursday as the perceived value of each player changes?

I am not fully set yet, but the backs I have up at this stage are:

Rose
Kaymer (fully set)
Donald
Furyk (fully set)
Schwartzel (fully set)
F Molinari
Allenby
Cabrera
Bjorn
Gallacher
E Molinari
Canizares
Jaidee
Hanson

Probably unlikely to come into the price wanted to back F Molinari, Gallacher and maybe Rose also.

I don't see it as a laying event from the off for me, don't want to be laying Tiger at around 7.6, and don't want to be pin pointing lays at better odds.

All players above backed to win between 6k and 8k.

gl all another great 4 days ahead
By:
DOUBLE THE TROUBLE
When: 14 Jul 10 04:51
Blimey..... The golf forum comes alive. Superb stuff.  And there I was sitting smugly with my team of 3!!!
Villegas returning 4K,  Schwartzal 4K and Z Johnson 4K are my humble punts so far. A fascinating read into how everyone approaches each tourny and the differing strategies that are used. I'll be following this throughout the 4 days and throwing in my tuppance worth where possible. Great read guys and I hope we'll all be lucky at some stage....
By:
Aussie Driver
When: 14 Jul 10 05:09
DT - I tend to take a bigger 'team' into majors, reason being there is so much more quality at big odds. I believe you get more opportunity to make a winning tourny out of taking a bigger team in given the liquidity and higher degree and speed of fluctuations in the market.

And yes, great to see the forum come alive!
By:
DOUBLE THE TROUBLE
When: 14 Jul 10 05:48
Ad, good morning. I agree and would love to be attacking this one with numbers on my side, but I always try to start slowly and build. I tend to do well when I get a good start out of one of mine and then follow them, sometimes trading early for green then moving on to another. Ive tended to struggle when I've laid my eggs early and had nothing to hatch come Saturday!  I suppose atleast this way, if I'm wrong with my 3 I can take another look come Friday night and go in again.  It's funny how differently we all play it, KR's numbers were fantastic and I like his attitude of getting properly stuck in. I'm a big fan of backing your opinions and it's fantastic when we are right, I'm really hoping for many happy freds come Sunday night, the buzz on the forum is superb. I'm working all weekend but will be following this as much as I can.... I'll be following yours and all other opinions with eyes wide open!
By:
Aussie Driver
When: 14 Jul 10 07:04
gl DT
By:
Smiley
When: 14 Jul 10 08:23
Great stuff lads and good luck frames...always loved your work.

Kinght Rider, I too have followed the same strategy successfully for the last 8 years. I am mostly a trader and whoever goes on to win is usually irrelevant.

This doesn't hinder my love of the game and especially my love for the Open. I go on holiday tomorrow but have made sure that  I have internet access and satelite tv (hope they don't let me down).

The book and all known form suggests a changing of the guard. It has been a long while since we have seen a book like this. The front 5 are much bigger than usual and the next 20 or so are much shorter.

I have hardly had a bet yet (although I have had a punt on Ernie Els Top 10...which I strongly fancy), because I cant get my head around the prices.

You have to be a class horse to win an open (or the once in while complete unknown). The list of winners of the Championship is full of ex legends and great players of the game, far too many to list.

The Open Championship winners at St Andrews reflect this (post war)...

2005 Tiger Woods
2000 Tiger Woods
1995 John Daly
1990 Nck Faldo
1984 Seve Ballesteros
1978 Jack Nicklaus
1970 Jack Nicklaus
1964 Tony Lema
1960 Kel nagle (your rank outsider)
1957 Bobby Locke
1955 Peter Thompson
1946 San Snead

What a list that is. So if I had to stick my neck out I would have to say that the winner will almost certainly be a legend or a great player of the game (past, present or future)...or a complete unknown. Laugh

Cant wait for it to start and looking forward to a great thread.

Good luck guys.
By:
patrick starr
When: 14 Jul 10 09:08
Hi guys,am very new to golf punting so its great to read some of the informed opinions here.

Don't really watch much golf tbh but the past month my mate has been extolling the virtues of golf punting and i have found myself tuning in to watch his backs(he's done his brains though tbh!)

Anyway, for no other reason than the odd snippet i have picked up here and along the last month,have backed

tiger @ 8

ryan moore @ 140s (loved his carefree,relaxed approach when coming home in some american tourney i watched other week)

Bradley dredge @ 310s,apparently a has good course record,but from the past few weeks am i right in thinking the brown stuff will run down his leg at some point if in contention,hence he's a back to lay?

Charl Schwartzel @ 130s,always seems to be in contention at some stage of any golf tourney i happen to watch!

I thought mickelson sounded quite ill when doing his interviews at loch lomond? Given his play there,his poor open record and perhaps he is feeling under the weather(please nobody take that as gospel it was simply a personal observation,he's probably fighting fit! lol) was gonna lay him Top 20 and make the cut?
By:
ericthecat
When: 14 Jul 10 09:15
Well its getting closer and my bets are changing as the money is really coming in now.

As of now, betting Tiger @8s
Harrington 27s
Schwartzel 130s
Alittle on Michelson 19.5
S.Hansen 350s
Karlsson 140s
Glover 400s
P.Lawrie 600s

Laying Rose and McDowell, and Tiger (later)
By:
Alfie Green
When: 14 Jul 10 09:40
The market will get very nervous if Tiger gets off to a good start...maybe down to 4 for a 4 under start. A moderate start will see his odds remain the same as SP. Have backed Tiger to win 30k to start with.

Also backed Mickleson, 5k
Lehman 50 k
Watson 15k

a few other bits and pieces to complete my portfolio before the off, will post my complete book when it's done.

This is a similar strategy to last year except I bailed at 3.7 early when it was clear that TIger was out of sorts.

I particularly liked Harringtons comment that TIger was the best player at getting the ball to stop closest to where it landed..that's critical as is avoiding 3 putts. Good to see the forum come alive!
By:
hacker
When: 14 Jul 10 10:21
Great to see this thread back up..welldone Frames.In my view it takes 5 things to win this week.
1.Draw
2.Being able to control flight
3.Long putting /6ft conversion
4.Bottle factor
5.Luck...One Bunker can end your week!
As always alot of debate around Woods.. i tend to take the  view that  his price will move in quicker than it will drift inrunning..As has already been stated a good start will see his price drop quickly and even i could birdie the 1st hole unless the pin is tight to the burn..that being said im against Woods and cannot see him winning.
Im a layer...for the simple reason that your bet is always inplay..if you back a player and he +4 after 4 holes you have done your money as his price goes to 100s and you cant lay off.On the laying front you can always back a player and take a lose and red out.
I have layed Rose,Rory,Gmac,Poulter,Westwood.for 5k in total.i will also add Woods to the list if he  has a decent front nine..If i was backing i think Allenby,Clark,Weir,Micko are all very good value for the above 5 reasons good luck to all.
By:
par
When: 14 Jul 10 11:01
remember last year Tiger hit a mid iron in the middle of the first fairway and they were fighting to get on half a point shorter
By:
lapsy pa
When: 14 Jul 10 11:05
Terrific insight on here into golf betting from the eyes of a relative newcomer.Myself being a small player,went with the option of small bets on Zach,Leishman,Dufner O,Neill,Gonzo,and Goggin.Also like Double the troubles strategy of keeping the powder dry till events onfolds as generally being a backer, its nice to have some chance in the latter stages.
Really looking forward to it,great thread and good luck to all.
By:
frames
When: 14 Jul 10 11:11
It was a full on brawl when he put his approach to 5 ft.

I see now when you load a bet up it shows current figures as well as your position when the bet is taken under each players name.
By:
padlock
When: 14 Jul 10 11:13
gl frames, anyway im laying boy wonder,poulter and casey,have just backed tiger at 7.8 £150
By:
padlock
When: 14 Jul 10 11:15
also backed sim in a few markets as think he could go well here
By:
trebor
When: 14 Jul 10 12:01
Rite rains stopped and sun's coming out so I am off to the course!! so having layed Tiger and backed some back will start the week at -£900 Tiger and +£300 the field, having noticed on last years thread I said you was to have a 20k handicap this year frames my net total is +£20,300 as long as Tiger don't win! wow tiz like getting a shot a hole!!!
By:
deepwater
When: 14 Jul 10 12:09
tigers erratic irons off tee--will save you frames

can see him in a few bunkers this year

great thread

best of luck

Cool
By:
Total Bosman
When: 14 Jul 10 13:08
Hi frames, glad you`re doing this again, made for interesting reading.  I`ll probably pitch in too with my less spectacular trading positions, if nothing else to keep myself focussed, something i`ve been pretty lacking the past month or so.  Had a dodgy time in the majors so far- last year i made about 20% of my annual profit in 4 tournaments, this year so far I`m up 2k in total for the first two (and that`s after i rescued myself by predicting DJ`s meltdown at Pebble).  So a big weekend for me to get things back on track.

And, of course, thoroughly looking forward to 2 days of 6.30am - 9.30 pm shifts, who wouldn`t?  Good luck frames and the usual suspects.
By:
Knight Rider
When: 14 Jul 10 15:29
DJ`s meltdown at Pebble

Can we please stop mentioning that Cry

Aussie D - To be honest I'm not a heavy trader during days 1-3.  I might tinker with my positions a bit between rounds, but generally I would expect my book to look fairly similar going into Day 4 as it is now.  Then I get heavily stuck in during R4.  So I would expect Frames' contributions to be the more enthralling on this thread...
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