General Betting
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Just got my premium charge statement from betfair
Just got my premium charge statement from betfair
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Replies: 310
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Im back, beware lol,
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Didn't realize you had left.
Must have blinked. |
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I think I once read that betfair can't earn interest on ringfenced funds. Possibly a load of baloney, anyone know for sure?
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Betfair earn interest on our funds. Just read the thread called "Are our funds 100 % ringfenced"
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TheBuilder/Lex,
If I had made £10M and generated £6M commission I wouldn't pay pc, if I had made £250k and generated £25k commission I would pay pc (provided that I qualify on the other criteria too, of course). |
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This premium is a rip off. 20%. This is the first time for me. Of the 8000, I made in a week for which I have already paid 400 in commission. Does that mean bet fair would charge me an additional 1200 by end of the week?
I rarely trade on bet fair( back and lay). I generally just back to win. Wouldn't it be wiser if I tried other bookmakers. Are the odds so much better in bet fair to compensate for the 20% commission on the profits. If the odds are comparable with other bookies, I could use bet fair when I like to trade? Does will hill and ladrbrokes charge such a premium. Please advise |
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No, you are very unlikely to ever pay pc if you just back to win.
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Why is that cat ?
You less likely if you just back to lose I would have thought. |
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they just don't get it do they, if they bet small and dont break even how is a bookmaker going to offer them any better deal when betfairs prices are better by a good piece of chalk, and if they ever get to the pc2 status of success then a bookmaker wont deal with them and other exchanges cant offer them anywhere near 10% of betfairs markets but of course they do give the game awy so often as to there real profit margins and concept that some punters actually bet as a business! how tiresome to read the same old titter on here!
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not intended for you fafh as you have an open and intelligent mind and probably see the entertainment value in them as I do[;)]
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It seems many posters don't understand that many successful punters do not pay PC.
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again...this is all about betfair getting rid of the most successful punter (Profit on turnover, not amount of profit won) so betfair can play there own markets
It is why some punters have PC of 60% and other 40%...it all getting rid of those punter who can hurt betfair , when betfair starts playing their own markets |
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Profit on turnover is not what the makes the most successful punter, arguably quite the opposite.
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Froggy, if you are a straight backer - i.e. you take a single bet per market, you won't get charged pc unless you are very lucky or know something you shouldn't.
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You are, of course, very unlikely even to win.
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i.e. you take a single bet per market, you won't get charged pc unless you are very lucky or know something you shouldn't.
I think the top end US sports gamblers would be charged PC based on strike rate alone if they were using Betfair. (Which they're unlikely to be doing) |
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* or you have a very big edge
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cool.
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I guess we will have to be wiser while using betfair. If you are just backing to win, then try out other bookmakers. Use betfair when you would like to trade or lay only. The odds doesn't greatly differ on popular markets atleast not to compensate for such a huge commission.
Doesn't make much sense for people like me especially who just back to win most of the time ( mostly on horses ). I trade mostly on football or cricket. Last week I got mail telling me that I will be charged the premium but will be waived off since its the first time. That was around 2100 ( inaddition to the commission). This week it might be around the same figure. And no I am not making millions in profit. Just around 8 - 10 K a week. I am trying to insert a few screen shots of the premium statements but betfair sais its pending approval. I guess nothing can be done as betfair has the right to make up rules. I have already withdrawn part of the money from betfair and moved it to WillHill. Now on, will use betfair only for trading and laying. Backing if the odds are significantly higher to compensate for the ridiculous premium charges. |
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kuthira
30 Jul 11 00:26 This premium is a rip off. 20%. This is the first time for me. Of the 8000, I made in a week for which I have already paid 400 in commission. Does that mean bet fair would charge me an additional 1200 by end of the week? I rarely trade on bet fair( back and lay). I generally just back to win. Wouldn't it be wiser if I tried other bookmakers. Are the odds so much better in bet fair to compensate for the 20% commission on the profits. If the odds are comparable with other bookies, I could use bet fair when I like to trade? Does will hill and ladrbrokes charge such a premium. Please advise If those 8 k were made without any losing markets that week they would actually take another 1.400 in PC, but can't see you being on 5 % commission if you can make that much in a week. That 1.400 is as long as you only qualify for the 20 % PC. If and when you qualify for PC2 they would take another 3.000 - 4.600 depending on your lifetime commission generated rate. |
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Hello Eddie,
I had quite a few losing bets in that 8K of profits. I went through the statement and here is the store so far this week. My commission is 3.5% at the moment. Total profits last week = 8796 Charges paid in commission = 483 I will be charges over 1200 by end of the week? These are all back to win bets. I am just having a good run since last month. Never made any real money in the past 3 years. Just want some good advice. Does it make sense to stick with betfair. Eddie, do you trade on betfair ( as in back & lay )? |
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Have you made over 250k total profit?
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'Just around 8 - 10 K a week'
just 400k-500k a year tax free and you are complaining about giving betfair a few extra quid. Unbelievable really. |
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Hi catfleppo,
I haven't made 250K. Not even six figures. |
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Hi frog2, Just having this run for the past 4-5 weeks. And i know it wont go for long. Just having a lucky run
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Then you don't need to worry about pc2 for a while (if ever).
Look here while logged in: https://premiumcharge.betfair.com/PremiumPortal/portal It will tell you what you need to know. |
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You will only pay pc if your 'lucky run' continues.
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kuthira, if that 8.756 is your gross profit for the week, you would have to pay 1.442 in PC.
Can't see how you are supposed to be in PC land though if you haven't made any real money during the last 3 years. Unless of course if you have upped your stakes heavily during this good run last month. That could very well make you a PC payer. If you mostly back and don't lay off it would make sense for you to put your bet on elswhere if you are able to get the same prices and amounts on, at least as long as Betfair will charge you PC. I both back and lay on here, but are more a position taker than what one would call a trader on here. |
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Thanks catfleppo for the link. Actually I had mailed betfair asking if i could view the PC statement and waiting for their response
I there a way to find out current week's PC ( as of now )? |
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No, but if your lifetime commission generated is over 20% you don't need to worry about it yet.
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This weeks number is unavailable during the week. You will only see this weeks number around noon tuesday and the PC is taken around noon wednesday.
If you want to know where you stand regarding PC during a week you will have to keep a record of all wins and losses during that week. |
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Yes Eddie, I did increase my stake as the profits were coming in.
Thanks for the advice, I will keep observing other bookmakers too and see if the odds are much better in betfair ( 20% or more ). May be its a shock because its the first time that you have to pay nearly 2000 of the 9000 you made when I haven't actually used any of the special features of betfair. |
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But you can of course find all that information under p & l in the my account section. You will just have to do the maths yourself.
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Lifetime Profile Markets 1568
Gross PL £ 31,338.63 Commission Generated £ 3,099.26 + Other Charges £ 0.00 + Premium Charges (exc. last week) £ 252.20 = Total Charges £ 3,351.46 Total Charges % 10.69 Max possible Premium Charge £ 2,916.26 Last Week 18/07/11 - 24/07/11 Gross PL £ 19,090.32 Commission Generated £ 901.80 + Other Charges £ 0.00 + Total Charges £ 901.80 Total Charges % 4.72 Max possible Premium Charge £ 2,916.26 Premium Charge [pre-allowance] £ 2,916.26 Available allowance £ 747.80 Premium Charge Applied £ 2,168.46 Remaining allowance £ 0.00 |
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Betfair did waive off 2,168.46
No escape this time around. I guess there are no way to reduce these charges by managing bets in some way or the other? :) |
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Wow! You got that just backing?
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To have those njumbers you sure have upped your stakes last couple of weeks
 But that isn't uncommen if punters go on a good run, so I guess you are a perfect case on how punters/position takers easily can be caught in the PC net. |
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yes, more than 95% of it. I generally trade of test cricket where odds seem to swing quite a bit.
made mostly by backing horses. Hugh taylor and Gary O'Brian ( at the races ) having a good run recently. great odds. I am not a big player. Actually had less than 2000 in my account |
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I suggested a method by which betfair could give rebates without leaving themselves open to evasion. I also suggested to them that without rebates the pc was a disincentive for gamblers to increase stakes. I'd be as well battering my head against a brick wall.
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Feck,
You may pass your suggestion to bf_fanatic, who believes that losing weeks have no impact at all ... he seems to be so impregnated by corporate propaganda that he can surely find a way to convey the information to the appropriate parties. |