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I'll butt out. But the matching is NOT at best execution.
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"Scrip - why is he not getting matched at 7.25?"
Speak to Betfair, I really can't be bothered to explain anymore. |
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Scripophilist.
06 Mar 20:59 I've tried to help you lot but really don't seem to understand. Speak to Betfair, that's what I did when I saw it. And why does that excuse your inability to give a coherent answer? |
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Because your lack of understanding prohbits any reasonable explanation by the look of it.
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Scripophilist,
You've explained nothing. I understand what everyone else is saying apart from you. Why won't you answer the questions directly? |
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I am trying desperately to get my head around how this can possibly be happening without "someone" benefitting from it and I can't. If you lay 1.16 and 6.2, someone HAS to be gaining 2.3% of the total bet as I see it.
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second that GOM. We all understand what you're saying scrip, you don't understand what everyone else is saying.
If this has been implemented by betfair, it's clear that they've fecked it up and that bets are not being matched at the best price. marcus - was anything at 11s matched? |
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Gone through your posts, and the one I can find which addresses the issue of best price execution would appear to be:
"Scrip - so where do the left-overs go?" There are none, the bet is matched on the other selections. I've tested it on illquid markets. But others are saying they get matched at the price they ask for, when there are better equivalent prices available. Perhaps you could expand a little on your testing? |
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Lat, look at Robin Ewe's example & ask yourself what price he should have been matched at.
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For god sake, I am answering questions directly but nobody is bothering to listen to what I am saying. At the end of the day speak to Betfair. I don't speak on there behalf I am just relaying what I have been told. I am stunned that people are being so negative when I am trying to help your understanding. I remember now why I stopped posting to the forum.
Go to my first post on the thread and there is the answer. If the market is overbroke Betfair are matching unmatched bets with the opposing position in the market. It's pretty obvious how this works and how it would be implemented. |
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with a 1.16 lay a back request should have been matched at roughly 7.25ish to level out the market and therefore help us poor humble punters have a more 'efficient' market
but he got matched at price asked for - betfair pocket differance ho ho ho Jolly Green Giant ho ho ho DStyle, not a bean matched at 1.10 |
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At the end of the day if you really don't understand, then speak to Betfair.
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maybe betfair laid the bet at 1.1 and backed it at 1.14+.
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Scrip - Explain Robin Ewe's example then.
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Scrip, I completly understand what your saying as to how it works, I got the same information as you from someone and their information came from someone at betfair, I have just had trouble trying to get betfair to confirm all this to me, which is why ive been posting asking you how you managed to speak to them (i.e. be it email, phone or letter)
It basically helps the immediate consumer by getting them the price they have asked for but because that price is creating an overround, it is also hampering every other rival consumer who may well have been getting good value by backing at the odds that should have come available Its debatable as to whether that is fair. But what happens if in markets where their is very small amounts of money on, the odds or money are not available to lay off on the other outcomes, does this stil create the odd overround that you still see since the 17th? |
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"Scrip, i've been trading tennis markets professionally now for nigh on 6 years"
In which case you should have an account manager, phone him. |
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well, we don't know whether betfair pocketted the difference on Robin's bet.
the 1.16 backer could have actually got backed at higher odds than those he left it up. It could have been implemented on a "punish the donkey" basis; would that explain things? |
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That's it from me on this thread, if you have any questions I suggest you speak to Betfair as I can't speak on their behalf and trying to help has just wound me up.
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Guys - Scrip and I are trying to help and typing endless examples etc into the forum takes time and effort - so please be a little lease critcal of those trying to help infomr of something betfair should be doing.
if the above example is correct then best execution is not occuring, and the time priority you get on the indivudla outomce is not the same time priority that exist when you get matched acroos the book not the outcome now betfair get 2.5 green, or 10 pence green or whatever, is this good or bad? well it changes the paradigm a little but is it bad? who was going to get it? probably a bot opperator, a net extractor of money from the pool. if he loses 2.5 and betfair make it ( then that might be a good thing for betfair and the site over-all) the bot opperator to excute this stratergy is probably polling the site 50 times a second, placing all green bets 90% of the time, and paying little more than 4% comission, but for heavy cost and usage, and only ever removing liquidity rather than adding any so even if betfair are greening up form themselves - as the above example indicates they are - is that a bad thing for the site as a whole... as I said 3 years agao ( should winner bee banned) |
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Thanks for all your help. :|
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Scripophilist, for some reason can't seem to grasp the fact that betfair are profiting from these overround books. They're not adjusting the odds to give people the best match just matching at the odds requested.
They also seem to avoid the delay on the assumption once the bet is placed that player has created an overround book and free cash so it's first come first served, obviously not showing the bet on screen and avoiding any delays gives them the advantage. |
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OK
someone go to an iliiquid market, place both bets and see if the green is actually extracted - but I suspect it is |
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magician it would've been fairer if Robin Ewe got matched at 7.25 tho, don't you agree?
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dstyle,
what we're trying to find out is if we're all operating on the basis of drop your trousers & bend over basis, never mind the sodding donkey |
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Personally Magician I wouldn't have any problem if Betfair had a bot that matched the overound but only if it played by the same rules as everyone else which I don't think it is.
My opinion on this matter so far is the bot already knows what bets are coming and it doesn't use a five second delay. |
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so even if betfair are greening up form themselves - as the above example indicates they are - is that a bad thing for the site as a whole...
I would not presume to talk for the site as a whole. It is DEFINITELY a bad thing for me. |
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The Magician of course it's bad for the site if Betfair are greening up. If they're doing this to make markets more efficient they should match the book at 100% by adjusting both layers and backers odds although if they're doing it to snatch up tall the free cash that'd wouln't be a wise move.
If they're avoiding in play delays it's even worse as it'll stop users from getting best odds , stops users from being protected by the in play delay to readjust/cancel their bets |
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so even if betfair are greening up form themselves - as the above example indicates they are - is that a bad thing for the site as a whole...
YES. Magician, you have no idea of the implications. I may not be the most succesful bettor on here, but this I understand. Brokerage firms did it and have been punished for it. Actually, what they did was 'less illegal' than what we seem to be witnessing here. Scripo, for someone with the ability to think out of the box, your statements thus far have been extremely disappointing |
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I disagree with GOM, as I said earlier this is a person to person betting exchange.
No automatic matching. That enables profits to be made by the operator. |
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aren't betfair just holding the money while I and say Fork have a bet
they, being unbiased, take the commission from whoever wins, fair enough - in fact GREAT idea but what betfair are actually doing now is meddling with that bet and people with an vested interest cannot be unbiased |
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I can confirm
IT IS NOT WORKING ON SERBIAN SOCCER |
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medemi
maybe so.... and maybe betfair will get punished - but the analogy has distinct differences |
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"Scrip, i've been trading tennis markets professionally now for nigh on 6 years"
In which case you should have an account manager, phone him. drivel. i've been trading numerous sports professionally for 5 years and have no acct manager. |
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Magician,
I'm not just talking about betfair possibly being punished. You can imagine rival exchanges trying to gain an edge over betfair (as punters do amongst themselves), in turn betfair have to think of something new. This downward spiral will have one victim only : the consumer. You can also imagine (even if it is custom in the UK to rip each other off) that other countries will not be too happy with betfair. It provides them with the perfect ammo to shut them down at the border. I can go on and on with this list but one thing is certain : it will end in tears for everyone. |
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usually companies offering services competing with each other increases value for the consumer. this change (if it is as suggested by those who claim to be in the know) will suit betfair's bog standard clients. even feck should be happy. which is why we haven't heard from him no doubt.
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Legit punters that want to get matched, will get matched.
betfair will match them - rather than allowing people that run 'mini businesses' on betfair matching them. |
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magician showing his true colours
somehow forgot to mention fairness |
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betfair aren't an exchange anymore then now that they've taken to matching bets
they're not even players because they cannot lose, their money is never up on the screen i try to back at 5.8 the 'legit' layer offering at 6.0 won't see a penny of it, how's that helping him? |
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interesting question magician - define punter.
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Magician surely this site has been built up by these mini business's offering odds and taking the small overrounds to ensure punters are matched. All thats happening now is betfair have decided their business is now large enough to take those overrounds for itself.
I can't see why you're all for it when you constantly put across this image of championing the punters rights to a level playing field. If betfair is snapping up these overrounds surely that's depriving other punters of having them whether they're making a book or just placing a bet. Just by the fact it's overround one side of that bet is now out of line wth the market and value |