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Curious about some odd activity at Betfair

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By:
the man marcus
When: 07 Mar 08 14:34
why don't we pi$$ off to** then?

i'll go now if others went
By:
The Magician (2)
When: 07 Mar 08 14:35
can't wait for this to come to the sp market..
By:
grafec
When: 07 Mar 08 14:35
I think implementing a product on BetFair which doesn't give best execution means Betfair have broken the golden rule of exchange betting:

They have looked at what is available and rather than provide the best price for the user if the opposite is available, they've provided what the user asked for, and kept the difference for themselves.

It's fraud. Pure. Simple. And crosses the line into sharp practice.
By:
weatherman2004
When: 07 Mar 08 14:35
In all honesty, I have very little spare time
By:
zeeny
When: 07 Mar 08 14:36
lol marcus, ditto, but it has to be organized.
By:
Troy McClure
When: 07 Mar 08 14:36
Robins Q and A pretty much says what I have said they'll come out with



Now, if Betfair weren't so f***ing thick, they'd have come out with that in the first place

And the first 600 posts on this thread wouldn't have been needed to try and explain to people what is happening. There would be a 1000 post thread with people complaining about it, but the complaints and the explanations are a different thing



Thanks for posting that Robin, it means people can see what is going on. Its a shame Betfair didn't have the brain to realise that in the first place. But now they have, I think what I was trying to do has been done. People can see what Betfair are doing

What this thread can now do is call them greedy **s and carry on.

I think my work here is done. This is a bad bad move for all of us but always, we'll carry on because there is no other option. Tlak of going Purple is all well and good, but we all know deep down that there is no chance of it happening
By:
DStyle
When: 07 Mar 08 14:36
release faulty software, pass it off as some interim phased approach and profit from it!

:^0

that's like my phone company saying it's planning on release new tariffs and is testing them, however don't phone Glasgow as that'll cost you 100 a minute. (but we won't tell you that, we'll let you find out when you do).

Utter utter contempt for their customers.
By:
zeeny
When: 07 Mar 08 14:36
weatherman, that's ok, but somebody has to care enough to formulate a coherent explanation of the situation and ask about GC's opinion.
By:
Bayes.
When: 07 Mar 08 14:39
As I mentioned earlier, We will now have to 'protect' each other from making mistakes or money will leak to Betfair. Usually if I am trading the tennis I will concentrate on the favourite and lay at say 1.5. In the short term I will have to offer a back of 3.0 on the outsider as well to prevent others getting mugged by Betfair.
By:
u25k
When: 07 Mar 08 14:39
we were promised fair exchange where punters bet against each other under similar conditions.

Now betfair if matching bets with no delay, they are **ing every inrunning punter. I got no objection if they do it under similar conditions of 5second delay.

I am just shocked they thought this way of making money is right in first place.
By:
DStyle
When: 07 Mar 08 14:39
I think my work here is done

let's all thank troy for his hard work.

where would we be without you
By:
steady
When: 07 Mar 08 14:39
i had the Q&A well after scrip but maybe before robin and was told not to post it up. i did tell them it would help sort things in some way.. but imo, it's not exactly got all the answers has it..

like does bf make a profit from this ?
By:
Feck N. Eejit
When: 07 Mar 08 14:40
Betfair are not beating the clock. They are using two methods to pair bets, an old method and a new method. Anyone matched using the new method is not being given the best price available. Betfair are pocketing the difference.
By:
Bayes.
When: 07 Mar 08 14:40
I think it may be time for a Users' Group. Is anyone else going to Cheltenham on Tuesday with BF?
By:
steady
When: 07 Mar 08 14:41
which i think is unfair, is it not feck ?
By:
Bayes.
When: 07 Mar 08 14:42
Yes, Betfair are making a profit from this. They confirmed it. I did suggest they gave it to charity for the weeks this is running but that is still a poor option.
By:
Feck N. Eejit
When: 07 Mar 08 14:42
Are we all cool with it then, provided betfair match the bet at the best price available? Or will they still be beating the clock?
By:
goldendeer
When: 07 Mar 08 14:42

Soup 07 Mar 11:47
Profits eaten up by betfair? Thats what they're here for, after all.

However, this isnt going to affect Joe punter hardly at all. It'll affect you lot who cream the overrounds though. Now you're being creamed.



It will affect a bit badly Avarage Joe. Because there are people out there making 3-5-10% of the total volume manually or half manually competing with each other. Yes now they are creamed, they earn less they will provide less tight books ---- worse prices for Joe.
By:
u25k
When: 07 Mar 08 14:43
why betfair dont give us simple betting exchange?

is commission not enough to fck us.

do they like us to rob in more ways. I think if betfair implements this then those people who do mistakes are eaten by betfair. In my few years experience it is not uncommon to do mistakes.
By:
weatherman2004
When: 07 Mar 08 14:44
Are we all cool with it then, provided betfair match the bet at the best price available?

I'd be ok with it. Sounds to me like they'd end up delivering what** already do.

But I don't think they'd have implemented it like it's working today if this was their intention.
By:
the man marcus
When: 07 Mar 08 14:44
Feck N. Eejit 07 Mar 15:42

Are we all cool with it then, provided betfair match the bet at the best price available?


Not at all

they shouldn't be involved in the markets, PERIOD

where will it lead - only giving exact price asked for everytime and pocketing that differance ?
By:
morris
When: 07 Mar 08 14:46
But they can only pocket the difference because they are able to cream overounds without a delay unlike any other user.

So imo they are effectively beating the clock.If they are profiting from the diffence they are betting and they can only do this because they are betting without a delay.
By:
Robin Ewe
When: 07 Mar 08 14:46
if it eventually ends up giving you the best price all the time then ill live with it. Id prefer they just kept out of the market but i suppose it will get more bets matched which is beneficial for us all.
By:
u25k
When: 07 Mar 08 14:46
what we need is fair market where everyone bets under similar conditions with no unfair interference
By:
Feck N. Eejit
When: 07 Mar 08 14:46
marcus, if they weren't skimming they wouldn't be involved in the markets unless you also think pairing a backer at evens with a layer at evens constitutes being involved.
By:
DStyle
When: 07 Mar 08 14:47
they have to recognise that the software they've released is faulty and withdraw it until it is fixed.
By:
zeeny
When: 07 Mar 08 14:47
Feck, that would simply introduce one line back/lay markets for in play. It would take some out of market dynamics but there would be nothing unfair about it.
By:
weatherman2004
When: 07 Mar 08 14:48
DStyle they must recognise it already, surely? Someone in accounting has to be looking at a balance where there was none before.
By:
kirk st. moritz
When: 07 Mar 08 14:48
Faulty software ...there you go .. people have noticed .. now its faulty software .. problem solved :)
By:
grafec
When: 07 Mar 08 14:49
There are lots of things wrong with it.

But we'll start with implementing a system which affects the users and generates BetFair profit at the expense of users, and deliberately not telling it's user base anything at all about it.

An act of indescribable naiviety. One which I hope they apologise for. One which I know they never will.
By:
boycee
When: 07 Mar 08 14:50
Let's get real guys. Betfair are running a business and as such have to look at at all "legal" avenues to increase revenue. For years the computer geeks have been hoovering the coins off the floor of the exchange. This adds up to a pretty penny over a financial year, so Betfair have employed a techno-janitor to sweep them up and place them firmly into their own bin. If your strategy does not employ lifting the coins from a dead man's eyes, then you should have no worries on this latest innovation.

Hope this helps. ;)
By:
grafec
When: 07 Mar 08 14:51
If they'll do this, what next?

Hoovering up 1.01 shots at market closure?
By:
the man marcus
When: 07 Mar 08 14:51
we could find ourselves in the suitation where i ask for evens at the exact same time someone offers 11/10 but betfair will only allow me to keep the evens while holding the layer to the 11/10

if they can release software, which aside from being faulty, they promised they'd let us know about how do we know route they're going to go down

Betfair should not be involved in the markets, period

and if you think i'm being paranoid it appears i have much to be paranoid about
By:
Bayes.
When: 07 Mar 08 14:54
I think it was bot I talked to by the way.

I asked him why it was even necessary to make the matching process 'more efficient'.
His answer was to do with the 'unsatisfactory customer experience' involved in not getting matched when there was an equivalent offer to match.

I think I am qualified as a customer to say that the experience for me is better when Betfair don't arb me and my fellow competitors.
By:
grafec
When: 07 Mar 08 14:55
The FSA should regulate exchanges. It would bar BetFair from getting involved or profiting from trades other than commission.

Not allowing the FSA to regulate us from September 1st has ensured it's taken less than 5 months for the biggest exchange to scalp it's own markets, and not tell the users.

If Betfair are doing it, all the others will soon follow.
By:
the man marcus
When: 07 Mar 08 14:55
'unsatisfactory customer experience' involved in not getting matched when there was an equivalent offer to match'

in an in-running tennis match! ffs

as DS said, utter contempt
By:
weatherman2004
When: 07 Mar 08 14:56
If they gave best execution, I'd see it as presenting the market in a different format, that's all. The equivalent of one ladder instead of 2, on 2 player outcomes.

But I am appalled with how it is working today.
By:
Wee Mac
When: 07 Mar 08 14:56
boycee 07 Mar 15:50

If your strategy does not employ lifting the coins from a dead man's eyes, then you should have no worries on this latest innovation


boycee, I don't lift coins from anyone's eyes, but if my back at a requested 2.16 could be matched at 2.17 thanks to betfair's new matching system, I'd like to have the 2.17 thanks, rather than see betfair pocket it. That's only fair, surely?
By:
DStyle
When: 07 Mar 08 14:56
I doubt boycee was being serious in his post...
By:
Feck N. Eejit
When: 07 Mar 08 14:57
No doubt many of you have seen my tirades about often not being able to get all of my back bets on (particularly when races were close together) and how, once I was automated, I'd be laying the rest as a means of increasing my stakes. While I'm in the process of automating, this facility will at least offer the same chance to others who aren't adept at programming. My only objection is to the skimming. If they remove that then, not only will it give me an opportunity to increase stakes but it will also yield generally better odds as there will be one lot of parasites less trying to get in the middle of bets.

Provided skimming isn't their eventual goal, all I'm wondering about is, what took them so long?
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