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This is all very disturbing. To say the least.
Above all, the lack of communication from Betfair is unbelievable! |
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troy
i had the same experience as marcus,very infrequentlly ,but definitely 2 or 3 times i can only assume that in the same way when i change my price the bet leaves the market until new price lands,the other money was in mid air as well leaving the 1.13 and 1.14 not actually there and 1.1 was matched what is for certain is if you make a mistake you will now definitely be shafted even though there might be no money in the bet or lay that your bet lands i can't wait to see this rolled out on all horse markets,there would be a shutdown of the forum i am guessing but i honestly believe betfair can't have understood the implications of this to normal regular in running players to get rid of the bot scrapers would seem to be a good thing but to do so in in running markets where they must have found it very hard to beat the 5 second in running delay seems madness and to do it on a 0 second advantage seems plain wrong,if not far worse |
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I have a HUGE problem with Betfair matching said bets instantly on a 5 second delay market. This is blatant thievery, as the 5 seconds are supposed to be protection for the users.
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You will only get matched at best price if the book is not overbroke.
As BF will instantly match any overboke situation themselves instantly you won't be aware most of the time that in fact you are no longer always getting best execution. |
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6) Betfair are NOT looking at bets while the 5 seconds is counting down
How do you know that? If they're not looking at the bets but are matching in a nano-second then possibly you have to add this to your summary: Betfair are laying bets instantly and therefore not within the constraints of a 5 second delay |
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disturbed 07 Mar 15:40
This is all very disturbing. To say the least. LOL :) |
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exactly marcus.
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What happens now?
Nothing changes, we all have our moan and eventually accept the situation and just get on with it is the most likely outcome. :( Then Betfair will come up with a new way to sting us somewhere down the line. |
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PS: IMO, somebody at Betfair didn't realize how this change applies to In Play markets. They HAVE to exclude any IP market from that code.
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it's one or the other - has to be
so either they're watching our bets or have no clock neither sits at all comfortably |
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medemi - The 5m a year I was talking about was in NON in-running events. I don't think there were any bots on in-running markets before, nor now. Just the new Betfair matching software
marcus - I think there is a danger of confusing the issue. The issue is that bets are now being matched by Betfair, 100%, without doubt. Your issue I do not believe to be correct, but I can't rule it out 100%. But if we bring that up in this thread, we'll only confuse people. The facts are that if you submit a bet which smashed through the market, you will get matched at the prices which are on the screen. That is apart from the 3 examples you have given. So how many is that? 3 in 100,000? 3 in 1,000,000? I'm not saying it didn't happen to you, but even if it did, its a different issue to the definite issue we have here |
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kirk - I think its been established that its not happening on all markets yet, but soon will be
I defy anyone to prove me wrong, but find a market now, and submit a 2 bet at 1.01. I guarantee you'll get matched at whatever price is top |
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it's part of the same issue, ie the integrity of the in-running markets on betfair
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Ok, but for clarify, wouldn't it be easier to discuss that issue on another thread?
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I actually don't think BF are matching bets till after the timer BUT if they are pocketing the profit between matching customers then they are effectively beating the clock as a normal user could not do this.
i.e. they are using their bet matching mechanisn to both match bets between customers and effectively place bets for themselves without having to go through the 5s process that everbody else has to. |
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in all likelihood you will
but.... me and a few others have expressed concerns that possibly the lays we're seeing on show are just for show |
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The lack of communication from Betfair says it all!!!
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A lot of the terminology used by people is going to confuse this issue
There is a HUGE difference between Betfair "beating the delay" and "Looking for 2 ways to mach a bet rather than 1" Thats whats happening at the moment. Bet arrives, Betfair now look at 2 possible ways of giving you what you asked for |
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Troy, you misunderstand .. I mean if there is an exact price match with no over-round it wasnt being matched according to Robin. You said the idea was to match customers with each other. Is that the case? Maybe this is a coding error ...
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Aaah sorry kirk
Ok, well clearly there is nothing in it for them doing that so they aren't bothering I've not intended to suggest they are doing this for our benefit. I'm just saying that is what they'll claim. They want to make a profit, which at the moment is either not being made by anyone, or is being made by generally the sharper people on here. But they also want a way of it looking like they are the good guys To be honest, they are idiots if they don't do it for 100% exactly books, as it gets more bets matched |
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troy you havent fully understood the issue here.
there was a quiet tennis market last night Luczak v Gulbis. Gulbis 1.13/1.16 Luczak 5.5/12 I requested to back luczak at 5.7 for 12. There was no 5.7 on the screen but i was matched straight away. I was matched at exactly 5.7 despite there being 1.16 to lay on Gulbis. Now tell me how Betfair is doing the best thing for the customer there? I was matched at 5.7 when i could have had 7.25. |
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No, its not Robin, I am in no doubt that it is for THEIR benefit
BUT, they will claim you benfitted, because you got the bet matched which might otherwise not have been They pocket the profit, they are the big winners. BUT their speil, sh*t they come out with, will claim that YOU are the winner as you got the bet you wanted at the price you asked for |
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if the market was like this :
player a - 1.99/2 player b - 1.99/2 then Betfair would not match bets even though two sets of people are requesting 2. They only use this matching system when there is profit in it for themselves. |
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medemi - The 5m a year I was talking about was in NON in-running events. I don't think there were any bots on in-running markets before, nor now. Just the new Betfair matching software
You still have to explain to me where that 5m figure is coming from because I can't see it. Also, you're suggesting implicitly that that money somehow belongs to betfair, which is completely wrong. |
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Correct Robin, have a look at my most recent post to Kirk
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clock is irrelivant to this discussion.....
betfair don't need to know your bets during countdown.. when clock stops and order hits the market they execute.. end of |
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medemi - That 5m is off the top of my head. But it wouldn't surprise me if thats the case
Watch a horse racing market pre race on a fast refreshing screen. Look how many times it goes over 100% on the lay side, or under 100% on the back side. Each time it does that, there is a tidy profit to be made. Hey, it might often only be 10p, but if they do it 100,000 of times a week, thats a very nice profit |
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And medemi - I'm not suggesting that money belongs to Betfair at all. I'm just saying they see others taking it, realise they can get it first, so they help themselves
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But thats a profit which is available to any customer provided they are quick enough.
The profit that Betfair are extracting in inplay markets is not available to any other customer because they have to first wait 5 seconds for their bet to go into the system. Betfair place bets instantly as soon as they are in the system. |
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Yes Robin. But look at it the other way. When your bet hits, they aren't **ing the delay by matching your bet AND the other one, they are just converting your bet into a form that will get it matched
And the bi-product of that is they make a profit. That why they are doing it, but that won't be what they publically claim |
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''The Magician (2) 07 Mar 14:57
clock is irrelivant to this discussion..... betfair don't need to know your bets during countdown.. when clock stops and order hits the market they execute.. end of'' Yes BUT they are creaming off overounds using their bet matching software which has no delay. No other user can do this and that is how they are effectively beating the clock. i.e. they are effectively using their bet placement software to instantaneously place bets when the book is overbroke for their own profit. |
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they are not converting anything at all troy they are simply matching it even though they know better is available. It is like selling someone a car for 10,000 when you know that next door is selling it for 9500. Every pricing error that their customers make Betfair are profitting from.
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Again, you're right Robin
I don't agree with what they are doing. I'm just trying to explain it to stop a lot of the cr*p which is being posted. I don't know why I do it, as I'm only going to get abuse for trying to help :) All I am doing it putting forward what will be THEIR explanation for it, how THEY will justify it, and how while its not good news for us, its inevitable and I doubt we can stop it |
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I would say they are **ing the delay and the punter by not matching the bets at the best price.
You cannot have a situation where the exchange operator is making a profit from punters by taking 0% risk. This matching system should operate at best price or not at all. |
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they aren't **ing the delay
seriously mate what are you on? by not havign a delay they are pocketing the excess from the overrounds, how is that not **ing? that money should be in the punters pockets not hammersmiths Troy, you took this attitude with the scousebarry thread and were ultimately proved wrong what betfair are doing here is disgusting and excuse me if i'm not going to bow to you here |
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Exactly fork
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fork
It should be at best price, so both punters benefit, but when BF can make a huge profit from this, I don't see them doing it |
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Troy, how about letting BF put their own case.
I'm sure they'll be equally as patronising as you are coming across. |
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They won't put their case across, because they are sh*t at things like this
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fckin good at robbing us punters tho
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