let's however suppose that they are skimming the overround, they must surely have internal auditing tools that they run on completion for each market to verify the apportioning of monies and settlement . The moment they implemented this, big flashing lights must have gone off.....

Troy

You will get best execution if there is no overound which is most of the time , hence you getting matched at a higher price recently ( as we all do )

So if you back 2 and when the bet hits the screen the prices are 2.1 and 1.9 you will get matched at 2.1 as there's nothing in it for BF.

If however when your price hits the odds are 2.5 and 2 BF will back the 2.5 instantly and lay off instantly against the 2.You will get matched at 2 assuming theres anough money there.

At least that's the way I understand it from the examples given on here.If that's the case everbody's worse off , not to mention if you make a rick.

joe, if the 100% levels were dependant on overround seeking bots how would there ever be any overrounds in the first place?

And i'm not the only one here who has experienced, despite seemingly liquid market, getting matched at the exact price i asked for when the current price is a good 5/6 clicks above it.

marcus - You experienced the same thing in the England v Portugal penalty shoot out from my memory, at 1.4 when the price had moved from 1.8ish

I know you know what to look for, but I've not heard of anyone else getting that. If those are the only 2 times in however many million bets you made in the last 5 years, surely those 2 could just be flukes?

best thread ever on betfair.

reminds me of the words;

Us and them but even though we are only ordinary men.

Men would be changed to bots.

but as no-one else has experienced that

read the thread again, a few have described getting matched at exact prices requested and not a click higher

that Portugal game was pure theft in my eyes

Feck I'm not saying they create the 100% just willingly or unwillingly contribute to that which betfair aren't.

JPL66 , it's good to know all's not lost and there are people in the wings waiting to step in in these troubled times

Market 1.24 // 4.7

I put in a lay of outsider 6.0 for 5 (i don't like being screwed over for a lot of cash).

Market unmoving, 5 seconds elapses.. my bet never hits the market, instead I am left with a 5 lay at 6.0, with the odds of 1.24 still readily available on the other side.

If this is to be implemented, then I must have that bet at 1.24. giving me the lay at 6.0 is a disgrace.

fork - You can look at it both ways

Its just another way to make sure a bet is matched. Its not like they are watching the event, or caring at all what happens. They just match bets



Again, to be clear, I'm not supporting it, its bad news for most of us. But I don't think its the illegal theft people are making out. And Betfair are just idiots for not making this public, either before this thread, or this morning, to clear up what is and isn't going on

pasta_rogue 06 Mar 19:32

I have noticed in in-running tennis over the last couple of weeks that I have fairly often been matched at exactly the price I had asked for despite no money being available at that price on a refresh just prior to my money hitting the market and no excess money being available after my matched bet.


cakemonster 06 Mar 22:37

after reading the posts and thinking back to my todays trading on Roddick Im 99% sure it happened to me, was looking for him to win the tb and was going to ask 1,75 at 5-5 points in an somewhat empty market on him as fav at this point if he wins next point, last refresh showed little bit - but far less than my bet - around 1,82, next available price around 1,62 if i remember correctly. now as hes goes *6-5 bet goes in - and was matched straight away. Thought to myself ' now how was that matched?

pablo 06 Mar 22:48

cakemonster and TMM it definitely happened to me a couple of times today and on reflection 2 or 3 times this week on the tennis
mistakes that i have made into the market during a point are getting matched at exactly what i asked for ,rather than a mixture of what was up there

I'll add to my summary later;

"Betfair are NOT looking at bets while the 5 seconds is counting down. All they will do is at the exact nano-secnod when the 5 seconds is up, look at TWO ways of matching the bet rather than the only method of just ONE way of matching the bet. The new second way involves taking your bet and the opposite side, getting not just you matched, but someone else's bet as well"

Worse may be to come. They can implement a version that makes money out of non overbroke books.

Market is:

A: 2.16 (500) 2.18 (600)
B: 3.95 (700) 4.0 (350)
Draw: 3.5 (200) 3.55 (400)

Back overround 100.2%
Lay overround 99%

Punter comes to lay A for 100.
With best execution he could've taken a combination of 3.95 and 3.5 to achieve a lay of 2.168627
Betfair execute the best execution but give the punter his 2.18 lay without any of the money @ 2.18 being touched. Betfair profit.

The queue @ 2.18 has effectively been jumped.

Bayes - That would be worse, I don't think that will happen, as Betfair are then creating their own bet. THAT would be theft. The current way, they are only matching exisiting bets, not creating any of their own

marcus - I'm afraid I can't take the opinion of those 2 against my experiences, and those of lots of other people. If you can find 3 or 4 respected posters who say they are now submitting bets and everything vanished, and they only get matched at the bottom of their price, I might start listening

Until then, I'll say your 2 experiences were a fluke. And the others (with respect) just don't have experience to know what they are describing

marcus - I'm afraid I can't take the opinion of those 2 against my experiences - there were three of them

Until then, I'll say your 2 experiences were a fluke - i've alreadly told you it's happened a lot more times than twice

the markets are being manipulated now in a way that is bordering on illegal, who's to say what's going on

I was shot down in flames when i previously maintained the clock was being beaten (in a manner of sorts), i was proven right - i aint making things up mate

A SUMMARY OF THE THREAD SO FAR

1) Betfair are now instantly matching any bets in running which they can.
Example;
Federer trading at 1.3 to back, 1.4 to lay for 10,000
Nadal trading at 3.5 to back for 500, 6 to lay

If you submit a back of Nadal at 3 for 5,000, you will hit the 500 @ 3.5. You will get that 3.5, NOT 3. Any other money between 3.5 and 3 will also be yours, at the prices on the scren

HOWEVER, the new change is that Betfair will realise that your remainder asking for 3 can be matched by them instantly, because they can also match the 1.4 on the other side.

They supposedly keep both punters happy

Betfair keep themselves happy by making a big profit on making that trade. Whatever they may claim, they are taking that profit. They don't have a "position" as such on the market because they have equal profit whatever happens. But they get a very nice profit, make no mistake



2) As stated above, you WILL still be matched at the best available price. If Nadal had been backable for 50k at 3.5, you'd have got 3.5. There is no question about that (marcus - I'm afraid your example is the only one, and I've had a fair few bets in the last week which have been matched at better prices than I've been asking for)

3) Bot operators who could have been making as much as 5m a year from hoovering overrounds are now f*cked. Betfair are taking that money themselves

4) This isnt on all markets yet, but BF are slowly rolling it out

5) VERY IMPORTANT - If you make a mistake, you're going to get punished for it. In the market I spoke about before, if you back Nadal for 100k at 1.01, you'll get all the money going down to 1.01 at the prices on the screen and in the system. But what is unmatched will be instantly matched by BF, offset against the 1.4 lay on Federer. You will have NO CHANCE to cancel, ZERO

6) Betfair are NOT looking at bets while the 5 seconds is counting down. All they will do is at the exact nano-secnod when the 5 seconds is up, look at TWO ways of matching the bet rather than the only method of just ONE way of matching the bet. The new second way involves taking your bet and the opposite side, getting not just you matched, but someone else's bet as well

7) Betfair, indirectly via bot, claimed that any such changes would be communicated to users before they were implemented. This was clearly incorrect, as such changes have been made without communication

Whether or not it's a question of legality or illegality on betfair's part, there's definitely a question of integrity given that they claim to offer best execution. Are they obliged to offer us the better odds which can only be achieved by laying B and C as opposed to backing A?

It would clearly be in our interests if they do; it's in betfair's interests if they don't (and pocket the difference themselves).

I don't agree with that summary anyway.

3) Bot operators who could have been making as much as 5m a year from hoovering overrounds are now f*cked. Betfair are taking that money themselves

What the hell ? It has already been said that punters with a 5-second delay don't have that many opprtunities in-running. Betfair without the 5-second delay DO. Also, pre-off there are not that many overrounds.

Troy, you may have missed the test Robin did whereby a 100% match with no over-round was not being matched up. No incentive to?

Troy McClure 07 Mar 14:17


fork - You can look at it both ways

Its just another way to make sure a bet is matched. Its not like they are watching the event, or caring at all what happens. They just match bets