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Our understanding is that it's not operating on Australian markets because those markets are more heavily regulated.
The UK markets are being used as a guinea pig to see whether the FSA or the Government will get involved with an exchange operator (with the advantages of technology) taking money from it's customer base when back and lay prices (submitted but not shown to the rest of the user community) don't match exactly. |
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yep this was in use 6 years ago, just the way GB says, i made a fuss back then too, i guess shouldnt be too surprised it's back again after a while.. some people do remember betfair.
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squatting, lets see what comes of this first
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marcus, if they were doing the same thing without skimming what would be your complaint? It suits people who want their bets matched.
fork, how is it illegal for a bookmaker to accomodate bets at the prices requested by their punters? |
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when this was in use in the past it only operated on the back & lay side of 1 participant. It didn't operate across the market & best price was given. That isn't the case now.
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Betfair has just prepared a big Q&A on this subject, I have a copy in my inbox. It answers just about every point on this thread. It's such a shame lot of posters just haven't bothered to contact them to clarify the situation.
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feck - absolutely nothing wrong with a bookie doing that. A wholly different matter for an exchange operator to do it.
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i think it's of some urgency, marcus. if betfair get their way - and they haven't yet - the FSA / GC will have very little power or authority to intervene in unfair or potentially illegal practices by the operator in their own exchange. immediate scrutiny by the press will either cause them to pull the plug, or come up with a suitable explanation*
*the latter looks doubtful |
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my complaint would be i don't want artifically efficient markets
if i want to create an overround why shouldn't i be able to (i've outlined on previous posts why this sometimes is beneficial) i want betfair to hold my money while i bet with you and nothing more |
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Haven't read the whole thread but has it actually been ascertained that betfair are profitting by this new matching process by means of failing to provide best execution to their customers?
I'd be perfectly happy with the new process as long as our bet requests were matched at the best possible price e.g. if I want to back the home team and haven't noticed that I'd get matched (at the same price or better by laying the draw/away team in correct proportions, I'd have no problem with their new matching process. |
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The key point is that all players in a market must be subject to the same rules. If it takes me 5 seconds to get my bet onto the screen then every other person who could potentially match my bet should also have to wait 5 seconds.
What this system does is give Betfair a different set of rules. They can match bets as soon as they appear rather than waiting 5 seconds. How can that possibly be a fair market to play in? |
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It's not worth going down the GC route, Betfair have already run this change past them.
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squatting, any e-mails dont have to come from me
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Feck, you should read the thread. I know that it's long, but that question was addressed.
Just because a bet request is matched does not make it correct. BetFair are matching bets in the queue ahead of submission to the site. If it is in running they are doing so within the 5 seconds. They are acting as a user, matching over rounds (not 100%, only greater than 100%) therefore playing the market as a user with ultimate technological advantage. This is also one step away from settling all bets when they know a market is over and we do not. In short, the principle of a bet request being matched comewhat may is a weak argument. |
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marcus,
indeed not, but i think you may have a fuller comprehension of the issues at hand than me. |
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One way in the short term to stop so much money leaking to Betfair is to always offer 'reciprocal' odds (for example lay @ 1.5, back @ 3). I certainly will, but it is an extra pain in running and is unnecessary given the market could be represented by one runner anyway.
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Feck, I guess we're kinda in agreement on this one re:best price matching which doesn't seem to be happening from the examples people have posted. Considering most of ths matching is taking place on in running markets the delay or bypassing it is also very important.
" As a bookmaker, are betfair doing anything wrong? They're only accepting bets at requested prices." I'd suggest they are doing things wrong for lots of reasons |
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scrip, just because they've managed to blind the GC with bullsh1t doesn't make it right. If they don't backtrack on this they will seriously p1ss off a large percentage of their customer base.
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Scrip - I did ask you in the past if we could have this as a feature on BA. Any chance?
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marcus, they wouldn't be artificially efficient. In a two outcome event, if someone wants to back A at 2.0 and someone wants to back B at 2.0 what's artificial about pairing them off? Ditto for any number of outcomes.
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Scripophilist. 07 Mar 12:56
Betfair has just prepared a big Q&A on this subject, I have a copy in my inbox. It answers just about every point on this thread. It's such a shame lot of posters just haven't bothered to contact them to clarify the situation. FFS your holier than thou attitude stinks, post this Q&A on here then so we can all see. It's not as if some of us haven't mailed betfair we're just still waiting for a reply |
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How does anybody know this is down to betfair and not a user's bot ?
It seems an interesting coincidence to me that this has happened around the same time that betfair have proposes charging .1p per request for anybody polling a market more than 20 times in a second. Has somebody out there developed a bot that is polling a very large number of markets with high frequency to jump on overround markets ? |
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peter if they emailed you they should email everyone and not wait for us to call them.. post it up on here so we can sort this out.
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it's already been discussed Berry. They would need to be able to see the pending bets queue and beat the overround to explain what has been observed. In addition, it appears betfair confirm that they are doing it.
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judge berry -betfair have already confirmed that it is their new matching engine doing this
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fork, how is it illegal for a bookmaker to accomodate bets at the prices requested by their punters?
Betfair are not a bookmaker |
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Betfair are legally, a bookmaker.
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please will someone with a good understanding of all the issues at hand inform the press ...
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i was under the impression that they dont have a bookmakers licence?
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betfair is supposed to be a person to person betting exchange. This moves the goal posts to a different planet.
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Ok sorry for repeating a question but who keeps the profit from the overround ?
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It goes to charity?
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It goes to Andrew Riddell's lunch fund.
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either betfair, or there is no overround (see my post of 12:21)
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This argument about if people ask for a price that is what they want is rubbish.
You may ask for 2 because that is the bare minimum you want but you know in practice 90% of the time you will get matched at a higher price.So when you ask for 2 you don't want 2 you want more and 90% of the time you get it.If the situation is now that you will now only ever get the bare minimum you are obviously much worse off in the long run. |
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"Betfair is a licensed bookmaker in the UK. It also has licences in Australia, Malta, Austria and Germany."
About Us page, BetFair 2008. |
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Of course Betfair are a bookmaker - and a good thing too, because if they weren't (and were just faciliiating bets between other people) all their laying customers would legally be bookmakers.
Can't help feeling a lot of people on this thread are overreacting to a fairly minor change. Sure it's bad news for people who've written bots to exploit overrounds, and perhaps also for the odd person who puts up a bet in error, but for 99.999% of BF users it will make no difference whatsoever? |
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marcus, they wouldn't be artificially efficient. In a two outcome event, if someone wants to back A at 2.0 and someone wants to back B at 2.0 what's artificial about pairing them off? Ditto for any number of outcomes
why the need for betfair interferance, especially on in-running tennis markets these bets will get matched, might have wait 5 seconds, but they will get matched whether or not it's right betfair should be involved in the market or not in the first place is one matter, the fact they're not doing what they allege to is quite another |
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You can't charge people a fee (and this is the best I can do when explaining the skimming process) and not inform them about it.
It is not that hard to understand because, where will it end ? |
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i stand corrected
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