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Curious about some odd activity at Betfair

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Replies: 1,905
By:
true blue
When: 07 Mar 08 10:52
I really don't know weatherman.
By:
wiljons
When: 07 Mar 08 10:53
I think that even if Betfair can prove that they are not making money out of this other than extra generated commision, it is still unfair as it only helps the immediate consumer who is placing a bet to get it matched, and stops every other betfair customer from getting a possible bit of value from the immediate consumers back/lay

There is then debate of not being able to cancel your bet like you used to be able to which opens a bigger can of worms.
By:
Bayes.
When: 07 Mar 08 10:53
The key point is that you have always had 5 seconds to cancel a misclick in a weak in running market. Now you don't, and worse, Betfair take the profit so the money is lost from the market forever.
By:
medemi
When: 07 Mar 08 10:53
Yeah, betfair don't take a position. Why would you when you can steal the money with zero risk ?
By:
fork in hell
When: 07 Mar 08 10:53
More efficient bet matching system or new revenue stream.

I'll offer 8/1 it's about bet matching. Any takers?
By:
fing j
When: 07 Mar 08 10:54
what will they do when i want to match a tennis player when he's about to lose a match and ask for back odds above 100?

will they lay it on the opposite player at 1.01?
By:
the man marcus
When: 07 Mar 08 10:54
The effect of this change is that customer bet requests will stand a greater chance of being matched and the markets will be correspondingly more efficient

that is an admission they are running a program that won't allow the market to go overround

it's been proven they aren't offering best prices in these conditions (see robin, dstyle, steady) so they are cleaning up
By:
The Betf
When: 07 Mar 08 10:56
There is no doub tthat it has fundamentally changed the way markets operate. For me, personally, that is not an issue because when I place a bet I hope that it gets matched.
By:
Bayes.
When: 07 Mar 08 10:56
I'll lay @ 1.3 create an overbroke book get matched @ 1.3 while you get your 9's. Okay?
By:
grafec
When: 07 Mar 08 10:58
I geneinely think Betfair don't understand why people are getting upset.

They see it as a bet matching scheme. We see it as running a bot with zero time delay and a material advantage over other users. Making money on 100% books (before they hit the visible market), and doing all this without telling their customer base.

I suspect an impasse is developing. I know, without a shadow of doubt, that Betfair are acting fraudulently here and abusing their position as provider of the exchange. I think they know this too. But are having a "blank moment".
By:
fork in hell
When: 07 Mar 08 10:58
For me, personally, that is not an issue because when I place a bet I hope that it gets matched.


But wouldn't you prefer it to be matched at a better price sometimes?
By:
weatherman2004
When: 07 Mar 08 10:58
For me, personally, that is not an issue because when I place a bet I hope that it gets matched.

Makes you wonder why they even bother with a "Cancel" button.
By:
Get On MASSIVE
When: 07 Mar 08 11:01
Makes you wonder why they even bother with a "Cancel" button.

LOL :D
By:
fork in hell
When: 07 Mar 08 11:02
If you're bet will create an overround book, the cancel button is redundant.

I would have no problem with this if we were getting best price, but we're not.
By:
The Betf
When: 07 Mar 08 11:03
Cancel buton: are you saying that if a market goes overbroke you immediately cancel your bets, but now won't be able to? I can't understand what you're getting at here.
By:
the man marcus
When: 07 Mar 08 11:03
my 1500 was matched at 1.10 by betfair, the market settled at 1.15

that's a nice little 65 green all round

a small bet that was too, how much money are they making on these tennis markets
By:
weatherman2004
When: 07 Mar 08 11:04
Yes, if we were getting best price, it would be an enhancement.

It's not a difficult point we're making.
By:
The Betf
When: 07 Mar 08 11:04
Anyway - I'm off to do some work. Thanks for all the explanations. Seems quite clear now (although we still haven't go to the bottom of Marcus' experience - no euphamism intended).
By:
weatherman2004
When: 07 Mar 08 11:05
Betfairy, you're undermining the thread with your claims not to understand what is obvious.
By:
Omega
When: 07 Mar 08 11:06
SO If you make a mistake on a bet say lay at 28 instead of a lay at 2.8, you re getting matched at lay prices available and the remainder at 28, instantly without getting any chance to cancel ?
By:
Robin Ewe
When: 07 Mar 08 11:06
if they start matching best price when theres an overbroke book that is a benefit to everyone. Id rather they just stay out of the market but if they have to dabble in it then that must be the system they use.

How can they say they dont have a position in the market when they are blatantly skimming off money? Its like saying someone who is 20 all green in a market doesnt have a position.
By:
The Betf
When: 07 Mar 08 11:07
One thing's for certain. They'll be having a bumper Christmas party this year.
By:
Scripophilist.
When: 07 Mar 08 11:09
I have confirmation from Betfair that they have no net positions in the market. All they are doing is matching opposing bets.

Given my conversations and written confirmation from them and my tests in the marekt I am happy with their explanation.
By:
Omega
When: 07 Mar 08 11:10
Where goes the overround then?
By:
fork in hell
When: 07 Mar 08 11:10
Imagine if they decided to extend this policy. You could potentially only be matched at the price you request and BF could pocket the difference on every bet.

BF could claim "well, you got the price you asked for, what's the problem?"
By:
grafec
When: 07 Mar 08 11:10
What happens when the opposing bets don't match and there is a 101% overround? They keep it.

That makes them a user, but a user with an advantage.
By:
weatherman2004
When: 07 Mar 08 11:10
So Scrip, specifically, when you have tested, do you find you are being matched at best price?
By:
DStyle
When: 07 Mar 08 11:11
and if you're not being matched at best price, is the inverse price being matched at your price?
By:
wiljons
When: 07 Mar 08 11:11
Scrip - How have you managed to have conversations with them? Do you have a phone number the rest of us can ring?
By:
medemi
When: 07 Mar 08 11:11
How can they say they dont have a position in the market when they are blatantly skimming off money?

I wouldn't call it a position because a position involves taking risk.
There's no risk to betfair, which makes it worse.
Just another from of hidden taxation. Definitely illegal in my book.
By:
grafec
When: 07 Mar 08 11:11
For Betfair to play and "bet" "fair", they have to return the extra to each party.

If not, they are skimming the market, with a zero delay. And that is fradulent practice.
By:
the man marcus
When: 07 Mar 08 11:12
Scripophilist.

you're happy with betfair playing the markets with no time delay where they dont advertise their prices and aren't even offering what they claim to do ie best price?

they must be treating you well
By:
medemi
When: 07 Mar 08 11:13
Scripophilist. 07 Mar 13:09


I have confirmation from Betfair that they have no net positions in the market. All they are doing is matching opposing bets.

Given my conversations and written confirmation from them and my tests in the marekt I am happy with their explanation.


Do you have anything useful to say ?
By:
The Betf
When: 07 Mar 08 11:13
"If not, they are skimming the market, with a zero delay. And that is fradulent practice.

I've chnaged my opinion and now agree entirely with this statement. Betfair creaming money out of the market like this is wrong. If they could do it with zero cost to users then fine.
By:
Robin Ewe
When: 07 Mar 08 11:14
This isnt a Betfair matching system far from it. Dont be fooled by this. If i try and lay 4.7 and theres nothing on the market then it should stay there until a genuine user takes it. This system means Betfair are the people who take it and arb against another customer on the other side. This is just ** disgusting.
By:
Vim Fuego!
When: 07 Mar 08 11:14
For those of you who have just joined the thread but can't be bothered to read pages and pages of posts, I posed the following question earlier:


Vim Fuego! 07 Mar 11:07

This system of matching bets was definitely happening on the football last night. At the moment it seems that it is occurring when the requested price creates an overround or underround on the appropriate side of the market AND there isnt enough money in one part of the market to be matched totally.

Will the next stage in Betfairs thinking be Why dont we do this even if there is enough money in the market to be matched totally but we can match the other parts of the market to make ourselves a bit of profit.?
By:
steady
When: 07 Mar 08 11:14
Peter / Scrip..

I just tested this and can you explain to me if this is in keeping with what they have said..

market 1.09 / 11

I lay at 14 (by mistake), the net is match immediately (at 14) and never appears on screen.

How have they not made a profit on this ?

Why can't I cancel my error ? and for the novice user, this could simply be an error of judgement rather than fat fingers or shakey mouse, these people (and myself) are being screwed over.
By:
fork in hell
When: 07 Mar 08 11:17
I suggest rival betting exchanges could look forward to a marked increase in liquidity if BF don't put their house in order & fecking quickly too.
By:
steady
When: 07 Mar 08 11:17
i agree with you fork.
By:
medemi
When: 07 Mar 08 11:18
Are they any better ???
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