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The future's bright - the futures purple
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we are trading against the person who holds our money and makes up the rules
this is no longer a people v people exchange despite what the adverts say |
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as I said last night the final confirmation that they are skimming, can only be made if you can confirm that the inverse price isn't getting your worse price.
So a market looks like: Player 1.45 (2000) /1.5 (2000) Player B: 3 (2000)/empty you make a fat fingered mistake and lay Player B for 10 at 31 instead of 3.1. Your bet gets matched at 31s BUT can we confirm that our player A layer at 1.45 actually gets 300 matched at 1.03/1.04? |
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5.8 million matched on davydenko match so far. 18,000 matched on purple site, what a joke. how is it ever gonna be possible to switch. i dont ever see a mass exodus to make other sites worthwhile.
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Just tried this - put in a request to back Davydenko at 10's serving for the match and got matched
This is great |
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purple have been doing the same for a long time.
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If they don't change it back i'm out of here. I don't have many principles but betfair are definitely crossing the line here.
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we shouldnt have to do that Dstyle. Where are the people from Betfair coming out and denying this? We shouldnt have to risk losing money in a market just to find out if the site operator is thieving from us.
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DStyle 07 Mar 12:11
and if you're not being matched at best price, is the inverse price being matched at your price? wouldn't that be interesting? suddenly finding your placed bets are matched at higher prices. it is one solution that makes everything make sense, though. |
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callataxi
history is littered with people who used to be the dominant market leader and then were overtaken by competitors offering a superior product. |
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If the bet taker isn't being given best price then I can see what all the fuss is about but let's call it that way instead of clouding the issue with claims about betfair beating the delay. I can also see the point about mistakes and how this will turn betfair into "trap bettors extrodinaire" but if you started a thread complaining about trap bettors it would be overrun with thatcherite, no nannying, ex-city boy types telling us that stupid people deserve all they get. I suspect some of them are showing a more 'sensitive' side on this thread. I've also no idea what the GC are supposed to do about it. As a bookmaker, are betfair doing anything wrong? They're only accepting bets at requested prices. If they changed their rule to state that bets will only be matched at the price requested, what would the GC charge them with?
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farraflash, that wouldn't surprise me in the least
betfair know they can get away with anything, where the f c uk are we going to go |
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that might be true fork in hell, however looking at the purple home page, they seem to barely offer a 3rd of the mkts provded by betfair. frame betting, leg betting, game betting just for starters are hardly ever up.
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betfair are running a program that hoovers up any overround money
FACT they are not offering best price FACT they are skimming FACT |
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If that were the case feck, the GC would be the least of their problems. People would walk away from the site because quite rightly they would see BF were acting as Poacher and gamekeeper and that is inherently unfair.
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If betfair want to take money from the market via an arbing bot, so be it.
If betfair want to take money from the market via commission, fair enough. But if they want to maximize what they take from the market via an arbing bot AND charging commission for the privilege, there won't be any market left. Take this much money from your customers, betfair, and your clever bot will be left to play with itself. More short-sighted short-termism from betfair. You can have your cake and eat it, betfair, but your customers will be running out of ingredients very quickly. |
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I find it remarkable that I have come in for abuse when I appear to be the only person prepared to speak to Betfair about it. If you have an issue then I suggest you follow up with Betfair.
The man marcus seems to be implying that Betfair are hoovering overrounds when they have clearly stated to me in writing they are not. Surely, in which case, marcus you should speak to Betfair. Why haven't you done this if you have evidence to the contrary? |
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just answer the specific question please
in your tests, were you matched at best price? |
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Thats what this is: an arbing Bot owned and operated by Betfair to skim money out of the market.
This isnt about bet matching at all. They only match opposing bets if there is profit in it for them. Earlier on there were people trying to back Davydenko at 2.3. There were people trying to back Lopez at 1.77. A 100% book. These bets stayed there for 10 seconds or so unmatched because there wasnt any profit in it for Betfair. |
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I'll give you a hand. Examples of answers include:
"yes" "no" I know you understand the question. |
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the man marcus - BF, are you screwing me over?
BF - certainly not sir. the man marcus - ah, well that clears that up then. Thanks for your time BF - have a nice day sir |
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Scripophilist
they have treated me with nothing but contempt by doing this, why would it be any differant over the phone |
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Feck leaving the delay aside it seem quite clear Betfair are just using this to scrape the overrounds obvioulsy this has lots of knock on effects such as not being able to correct your mistakes as they be instantly matched before hitting the screen etc.
If Betfair we're executing best match on the usual first come first served basis i.e. a from all the examples |
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the delay can't be left aside, these bets are matched instantly - you have no chance
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BF - have a nice day sir and don't forget to delete your cookies
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I have spoken to my account manager Scrip and he seems to be confirming what I saw. Ie. when I submitted (with BA) two opposing bets on separate acounts that created an overbroke book they matched each other but NOT at best execution. I cannot be 100% sure of course because the serial numbers of the bets were 26 apart (less than half a second I'd guess) but it was an illiquid market and to the naked eye they matched each other.
They were two lays: 1.43 and 4, and these were the prices that were returned. |
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Feck leaving the delay aside it seem quite clear Betfair are just using this to scrape the overrounds obvioulsy this has lots of knock on effects such as not being able to correct your mistakes as they be instantly matched before hitting the screen etc.
If Betfair we're executing best match on the usual first come first served basis i.e. a 3 back equates to a 1,5 lay then there woudn't be the uproar there is now. But from all the examples that isn't happening anyone backing at 1.4 would get 1.4 and betfar the difference. You'll also notice all evens evens two runner markets aren't being matched for the benefit of betfair users which should be telling you something ;) |
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My belief is that BetFair, through providing a bot which hoovers up arbs, ahead of the queue or time delay, and pocketing the difference, has broken a number of statements it made to the Joint Scrutiny Committee of the Draft Gambling Bill, entitled "Memorandum from Betfair (DGB 71)".
The clear implication of this set of verbal questioning was that BetFair acted as a conduit for betting, taking profit from commission, not that it took a profit from a market itself, where a book was greater than 100%, stepping in ahead of any user. The FSA would take a dim view of BetFair operating their own markets for profit, no matter what Feck says about what's written in their own rules. BetFair have argued that the FSA shouldn't be involved in exchange betting. Unfortunately, I'm convinced the FSA would argue that "operator skimming" is fradulent practice. Maybe we see why BetFair argued against FSA involvement to the Parliamentary committee now. |
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Robin Ewe
Earlier on there were people trying to back Davydenko at 2.3. There were people trying to back Lopez at 1.77. A 100% book. These bets stayed there for 10 seconds or so unmatched because there wasnt any profit in it for Betfair. I make it 99.98% so the matching wouldn't happen. Otherwise people could self match and make a profit ! |
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grafec that changed when they received permission from to operate bots on the exchange markets. It is possible they may have taken this as a precedent and have now rolled this out to other markets.
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*from the regulator
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marcus,
send an e-mail to the newsdesk of the racing post, times, independent, guardian, telegraph & FT. if betfair are doing what they appear to be, then i'm sure all of the above papers would be extremely interested .... if there is sufficient negative publicity, betfair will cease. |
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Betfair used to do exactly this until about 3 years ago. They (reluctantly) stopped because it impaired syetem performance.
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marcus, in this debate the delay is irrelevant. If betfair were doing the exact same thing without skimming your only complaint could be that best possible prices (down to betting all others the opposite way) weren't showing. The delay would not be an issue.
On the other hand, maybe if the GC had someone capable of understanding that the owners of bets, that bet takers were attempting to match, had around 6 seconds to decide whether they wanted the bet or not, betfair would be in trouble. |
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fork , I don't play the tennis much but it'd be interesting to see if they turn this matching bot off for markets operating on the Aussie exchange.
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feck, i see what you're saying but the for me the delay is very relevant
this instant matching means that any mistakes will now get punished every single time in a true people v people exchange that wouldn't be the case this efficiency drive is suiting no-one bar betfair, anyone claim to have found the markets so much better over the last couple of weeks? nah |
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joe, I don't get your 12:36 post at all. Is there supposed to be something there that contradicts my opening post?
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marcus,
as i say ... send an e-mail to the above papers. also attach a link with this thread .. |
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Smithers-Jones it was aroudn 6 years ago I reckon, and it wasn't the same at all. Then they converted the bets on the other runners into synthetic bets, so that you got best execution, and they didn't skim anything off except for roundings (in ther words a 2.6 back was converted into a 1.62 lay and they only skimmed off the difference between 1.62 and 1.625).
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I think the point about the delay is that it enables BF to see the position before anyone else and are able to act accordingly. This means they are able to place bets (call it bet matching if you like) and take a profit without ANY risk.
Placing a bet where you have 100% chance of a profit and 0% risk is not betting. It is skimming & it is probably illegal. |