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Going by the earlier Q&A that was posted betfair say the skimming will cease, so could anyone explain to me how "they are biting the hand that feeds them".
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Betfair are not siphoning anything , only the commision from the matched bets.
Many of you havent bothered to read their email obviously |
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Is there a flies-round-sh1te issue that I'm not grasping here or something? If that's what it is, might I remind you that the majority of traders going purple wouldn't make a blind bit of difference to betfair or the purple site for that matter.
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The change you've noticed is that we've made the code that matches customer bets more efficient. Previously we would only attempt to match customer bet requests against unmatched bets of the opposing bet type (backs vs. lays) on the same runner in the same market.
Where there is no opposing bet to match on the same selection, rather than just leaving a customer's bet request unmatched, bet matching will now attempt to match the bet request against unmatched bets on other runners e.g. in a soccer match odds market if there is no unmatched lay bet on the home team against which to match a customer's back bet request, the bet matching algorithm will now attempt to match that request against back bets on the away team and the draw. As before the process matches opposing customer bets and will not result in Betfair having a position in the market. The effect of this change is that customer bet requests will stand a greater chance of being matched and the markets will be correspondingly more efficient. We are gradually rolling this improvement out across all applicable markets on Betfair while ensuring there is no deterioration in bet matching performance |
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If you disagree, I'd love it, just love it, if you'ld all put it to the test.
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To me it sounds like a win win situation
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If they want to make it more efficient and remove the overround; then they just have to remove Player B in a 2 runners market.. That way, you could only back or lay Player A
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For lippy's benefit. It is a long thread after all..
Troy McClure: A SUMMARY OF THE THREAD SO FAR 1) Betfair are now instantly matching any bets in running which they can. Example; Federer trading at 1.3 to back, 1.4 to lay for 10,000 Nadal trading at 3.5 to back for 500, 6 to lay If you submit a back of Nadal at 3 for 5,000, you will hit the 500 @ 3.5. You will get that 3.5, NOT 3. Any other money between 3.5 and 3 will also be yours, at the prices on the screen HOWEVER, the new change is that Betfair will realise that your remainder asking for 3 can be matched by them instantly, because they can also match the 1.4 on the other side. They supposedly keep both punters happy Betfair keep themselves happy by making a big profit on making that trade. Whatever they may claim, they are taking that profit. They don't have a "position" as such on the market because they have equal profit whatever happens. But they get a very nice profit, make no mistake 2) As stated above, you WILL still be matched at the best available price. If Nadal had been backable for 50k at 3.5, you'd have got 3.5. There is no question about that (marcus - I'm afraid your example is the only one, and I've had a fair few bets in the last week which have been matched at better prices than I've been asking for) 3) Bot operators who could have been making as much as 5m a year from hoovering overrounds are now f*cked. Betfair are taking that money themselves 4) This isnt on all markets yet, but BF are slowly rolling it out 5) VERY IMPORTANT - If you make a mistake, you're going to get punished for it. In the market I spoke about before, if you back Nadal for 100k at 1.01, you'll get all the money going down to 1.01 at the prices on the screen and in the system. But what is unmatched will be instantly matched by BF, offset against the 1.4 lay on Federer. You will have NO CHANCE to cancel, ZERO 6) Betfair are not looking at bets while the 5 seconds is counting down. All they will do is at the exact nano-second when the 5 seconds is up, look at TWO ways of matching the bet rather than the only method of just ONE way of matching the bet. The new second way involves taking your bet and the opposite side, getting not just you matched, but someone else's bet as well. 7) Betfair, indirectly via bot, claimed that any such changes would be communicated to users before they were implemented. This was clearly incorrect, as such changes have been made without communication. |
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win win for betfair maye lippy,
what if you backed a player at 4 could've probably got it but Betfair saw it first and matched it , you'll now have to wait because betfair takes any value bets for themselves, OK fair enoughthe punter wanted to be matched at 4 but he didn't expect betfair to match him at lower odds with another punter and betfair sim the difference. You now have no safety net when making a duff bet whereas you may have been able to cancel before the bots woke up |
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Feck, i might have missed it but did any representative of betfair actually acknowledged that the profit there are making from the arbing is actually a software fault and it will be corrected?
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Does somebody really believe in here they release a faulty software.?
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All this talk about all mistakes being punished isnt correct. Bets are only matched if there is an equivelant value bet on the other side. Often there wont be and you will remain unmatched.
My mistakes always seem to be punished anyway :-( I can understand why some are worried, change is a scary thing and some peoples methods may not work quite as well. Fear not though , money will still go from the weak to the strong , it always does |
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Betfair have made no formal announcement that this change had happened.
Betfair have made no formal announcement that it has made money for them. Betfair have made no formal announcement that they will change their bet matching software to a fairer option which provides the best price for all parties, or that they will return their profits to punters or to charity. Betfair have made no formal announcement. Period. Today they handled almost 1 billion pounds of UK money (probably). |
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Software fault :) Even betfair usually rollback the sytem with software faults not take two weeks
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software fault?
oh come on, how could this possibly be anything other than deliberate? i'd be amazed if it hasn't been designed from the ground up around this 'feature'. |
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Lippy, you never were the sharpest tool in the box, but it's hard to believe even you are this naive.
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if 2 people both try and back A and B in a 2 runner race for 2000 @ 1.5 are you suggesting once betfair sort out the gremlin in this new gimmick that they will both be matched @ 2.0
whereas at the moment the spare grand appear to vanish |
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storm in a teacup the whole thing
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Lets hope the bring it onto the horseacing markets so we can hammer them with non-runners reduction factors. Might make them start removing non-runners a bit quicker
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why not simply remove a runner in a 2 runners market ? That way, bets will be matched at the price punter wants, and it will create more efficiency ... Isnt it what Betfair wants ? It didnt need a new software
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zenith,
but that wouldn't allow them to make a huge wad of extra cash at punters' expense, now would it? |
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Fear not though , money will still go from the weak to the strong , it always does
As I keep trying to point out though this is an unwelcome take-out from the market. Ultimately there is a finite of money to be won and any take-out by Betfair reduces the net value of all the punters in a market. Before this change an in running market was zero sum until the end when Betfair took their cut. Now there is an ever diminishing pot in play (and then Betfair take their cut). If you cannot see this is detrimental to all punters, I despair. |
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Zenith , considering most users are too dumb to see the implications of the current bet matching algorythmn they'd hardly be able to equate laying a player is the same as backing the other
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I know Squatting-tiger, I was being ironic..
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i wouldn't mind quite so much if they'd done this from the very beginning, and been zero comission ... but we pay a lot of commission, and then have another tax / unfair ** imposed on us
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zenith - i thought you were, but as some seem to be having considerable difficulty with the - relatively - simple concepts at hand, I felt it best to explicit.
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Betfair have installed overround software on their own system. for their own benefit. They use the "bet matching" phrase to muddy the waters and provide a service. A service they make extra money out of.
Ater 7 years you'd think they'd realise we'd notice. After 7 years, you'd think they'd tell us. What else don't we know? Suely they could hoover 1.01s before market closure. Who would know? They don't have to tell us. They don't actually have to tell anyone.. We believe them because we have to. And then we find out, they're hoovering up 101% situations in play on all markets with less than 5 outcomes. Dang. Why weren't we told? |
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Have read this whole thread and think I understand it. I suspect that all estimates of the amount of money which betfair can cream off from this practice are hopelessly conservative.
Surely we should be petitioning betfair - copies to the Gambling Commission and the quality press - deploring the introduction of this measure without notification of customers and requesting that they cease this (unintentionally?) dishonest practice immediately and only implement cross matching once best execution can be guaranteed in line with their tems and conditions. Many posters on here think that this issue is only relevant to people running bot or to a few 'pro-gamblers'. This is not the case. Particularly in-play we want to be matched at the price we input or better, not just the price we request. This measure will hugely benefit betfair shareholders at the expense of customers. No user is getting monetary gain from this crossmatching. Betfair is getting that. If we make an error we would hope to get an opportunity to cancel it before someone matches it, not to see Betfair hoover a massive profit from it. It may be fair enough if a punter on the other side profits I suppose, because on another occasion we may be the punter on the other side. It should not simply be an additional contribution to shareholders funds. In the meantime betfair should clearly let us know on which in-play markets this parasite is operating in order that we can avoid them. |
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It is not a storm in a tea cup if they are denying best execution price to their customers.
As others have already posted if this is accepted they can easily extend this to start matching prices in the queue before they are visible to legit customers. If they are making profit by not giving their customers best execution price then they are on a slippery slope. They will kill the in play markets if they lose their customers trust. As has already been said you cannot be both game keeper and poacher. |
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IF they continue to skim then I'm as much against this as anyone else but even without their skim they would have to be nuts not to implement it if it can be done efficiently so, if your against it for reasons other than the skim, get used to it.
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we will be really really happy to see this implication WITHOUT THE SKIM.
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All this talk of creaming off the top is making my hungry for a cream tea with scones and jam.
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Agreed optimist customer services haven't been much use at the best of times but considering this thread has almost 1000 posts over the period of one day you'd expect them to release some sort of announcement. Even if it's only to inform s of the markets this is being used on.
Usually bot has turned up by now to give the party spin but he's been conspicuous by his absence |
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Thank god I re-opened my B.TD.Q account in january.
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Feck N. Eejit 07 Mar 17:57
IF they continue to skim then I'm as much against this as anyone else Good to see you sticking up for those traders who profits depend on these morsels Feck :) |
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With more bets matched; they will probably have more comission as well ... But hey, why not taking more off our customers with the overround, and for someone's mistakes with fat fingers ?
How many comissions rises did we have ? 3, 4 .. ? |
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The problem for bot is that he said BetFair wouldn't introduce their own bot in the main sports market without telling the user base.
We were not told about this. It was discovered, like a cancer in the lung. We now have a bot masquerading as "bet matching", which is fine a lot of the time, but at 101% hoovers up the overround and sends it to the Betfair bank account (just like all those other bots that were out there). And in-running, does this instantaneously, which was an area where overround bots didn't used to exist. So, bot is rightly, sheepish. Either he was lied to. Or he lied to us. |
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bot's probably chucking a few bundles of fifties on the fire to keep him warm and wondering what he'll spend all his extra cash on. Far too busy to come on here,
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Betfair / bot. I've long been a supporter of Betfair, defending the decision even when most was screaming. But I can't defend this one. Automatically matching overrounds is fine (so long as everyone is made aware), but pocketing that overround difference is just plain wrong.
You should reverse this characteristic and match at the best price available for the money already in the market (as if all the money had been available on the single selection). |
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Now I've written it in bold there's bound to answer.
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