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I Guess Thats The End For Me On Here

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Replies: 189
By:
CLYDEBANK29
When: 30 Jul 22 22:42
Lat I did deposit a lot... £50k.  I was asked for ID and proof of funds which I sent.  I was even told they were OK.  Then they still suspended.  I definitely paid a chunk in PC just before they suspended as the reason I made the deposit was to oppose Trump.  Thankfully I withdrew all but £5k either the same week or the following week before they suspended.
By:
Latalomne
When: 30 Jul 22 22:43

Jul 30, 2022 -- 10:28PM, SontaranStratagem wrote:


The really pi33 poor thing is I opted out of their casino bs and still get loads of their ads for their idiotic slots, I think we know they aint motivated to ditch those players Doing your balls on a slot is actively encouraged and no checks are ever carried out


Someone said the other day that their Exchange exposure limit is set to £5k while their "Casino games" limit is set to £100k!  (by default)  Tells you a lot!

By:
Latalomne
When: 30 Jul 22 22:43

Jul 30, 2022 -- 10:32PM, brentford wrote:


yep, golden age age of betting lasted about 4 years max ....no ?enough money on exchanges to make them viable ..2003-2007...different ownership ...pc charge...more drastic pc charge...promotion of sportsbook

By:
Latalomne
When: 30 Jul 22 22:44
I'd go 2002 to 2008 (when the first PC charge came in), but yeah!
By:
Latalomne
When: 30 Jul 22 22:46

Jul 30, 2022 -- 10:42PM, CLYDEBANK29 wrote:


Lat I did deposit a lot... £50k.

By:
CLYDEBANK29
When: 30 Jul 22 22:46
And they suspended the account again for no new reason 3-6 months later.
By:
Latalomne
When: 30 Jul 22 22:46
Actually, that does ring bells for me, CB!  Would that have been a big deposit for you?  (it would have been a chuffing huuuuuuuuuuuuge one for me!  LaughLaughLaugh)
By:
Latalomne
When: 30 Jul 22 22:47

Jul 30, 2022 -- 10:46PM, CLYDEBANK29 wrote:


And they suspended the account again for no new reason 3-6 months later.


Really?

By:
CLYDEBANK29
When: 30 Jul 22 22:52
Yes it was a one off.  £5-£10k wouldn't have been too abnormal.
By:
Latalomne
When: 30 Jul 22 22:53
And there was no justification at all for the second one?
By:
CLYDEBANK29
When: 30 Jul 22 23:00
Yes really.  I even got a patronising concerned phone call some time after that which was bewildering.  I think once you are "marked" they don't remove it, even if it should never have been there in the first place.
By:
Latalomne
When: 30 Jul 22 23:02
So no losing run, or string of deposits, or anything?

Other than a few emails after losing days (and a couple of "we've noticed changes in your betting patterns" pop-ups when I started betting on the horses again at the conclusion of the snooker season), touch wood, I've not had anything to date....
By:
CLYDEBANK29
When: 30 Jul 22 23:10
No losing run and possibly not a single extra deposit.  Mebbe a grand max.  Annoying thing was I would've laid Brian Rose to be London Mayor for at least £20k, but I just thought it wasn't worth the potential risk of having the account suspended again.  Then the account got suspended anyway!
By:
Latalomne
When: 30 Jul 22 23:20
How bizarre....  That's really bad, actually, if you've given them no additional cause for concern...  Cry
By:
.Marksman.
When: 30 Jul 22 23:59
Agree with Brentford about the golden age from 2003-2007.  What happened in 2007 was that Paul Nichols, with Kauto Star, won the Betfair Millions and to pay for it we were faced by a stiff hike in commission rates in 2008 meaning that the vast majority were put on 5% or close to it.  Premium Charge followed close on it's heels, but liquidity had now peaked and was going into decline.  The current rate of 2% came in too late to stop the rot and was only a response to what Betdack had been doing for a while.
By:
.Marksman.
When: 31 Jul 22 00:05
I did actually leave in 2010, before they could to steal some money off me.  But, at the time I found Betdack to be unviable and I eventually came back here and let them take the money that they claimed I owed them.
By:
SontaranStratagem
When: 31 Jul 22 00:35
Oh the patronisoing concerned phone call is the best ive heard (as in the worst but sarcasm I suspect)

The magic card they love ti use to basically put all the problems being you and not them, whilst pretending they care so much despite robbing you blind into the bargin ffs

The old tricks that only work on a very gullible society
By:
duffy
When: 31 Jul 22 02:20
Sont,

What were they describing it as, "affordability" or "proof of income"
By:
duffy
When: 31 Jul 22 02:36
If it is proof of income then you should be  able to redact everything bar entries pertaining to income.

If its affordability then a bank statement and wage slips wouldn't suffice in isolation anyhow because you'd need a complete breakdown of all your outgoings, mortgage/rent, weekly shopping, energy costs, pension, insurance, fuel etc etc.

Plus for most who are in a partnership then there is probably the partner's statement that would have a portion of the household outgoings going through it, if they want an accurate representation of "affordability" then they'd need to see your partners statements.

However they are not asking for any of this stuff and the reason is that they talk about affordability and such like, this is really a ruse in order to gradually strangle the life out of the sports bettors.

What would turn things on its head is if GOVT forced the books to reveal the percentages of what type of bettor has been targeted particularly if it was shown that they had not been even handed with sports/casino players.
By:
dustybin
When: 31 Jul 22 03:36
That’s speculation, you don’t know that to be true that they act disproportionately towards slot and sports betting users.

There are a number of differing things being conflated here, bf have always had some degree of responsibility towards a). New levels of gambling b). Money laundering
You would get a call (and account frozen) years ago on both of those matters. Even if you cleared the area of concern it doesn’t automatically mean you get Carter Blanche from there on, you could for obvious reasons pass money laundering one week then start money laundering for eg.

The PC identifier just highlights how vulnerable a user is (or not) and it’s the calculation that determines whether you pay it is very likely the same to determine affordability (which is separate to money laundering etc) Rico may well have a lifetime profit, but at the time in question he stopped profiting, meaning his churn lowered his gross to com ratio so he got the question as everyone would I suspect.


The whole thing is mired in the opaque way bf have never really been open with what they do, this is no different.
I don’t believe they want to kill the exchange, it’s their USP and they have a monopoly on it but that’s not to say the whole premise of superficial MP initiated direction of data gathering and/or irrational approach to gambling restriction would stand up in court.
Remember who encouraged all this and what they used as their arguments, they took myopic views believing MPs would fix all their personal angst with bookie operation, and/or force bookies to drop slots and encourage proper bookmaking again. Well they were wrong then and they are wrong now, this is enterprise you don’t get to cherry pick the bits that you like.
Bf as others should be allowed to sell their wares as any other company, if you have a problem then the onus is with you to seek the help that is available….anything that deviates from that creates a disparity of issues that we see being played out now.
By:
dustybin
When: 31 Jul 22 07:41
There are a couple of other issues raised here that I’ve now looked at, and I’m in no way defending this requirement, I’ve made it very clear I’m against the need to provide evidence simply to be allowed to bet how you wish.

Somebody said they receive marketing emails for slots etc (presumably unwanted)….All marketing whether gambling or not has a responsibility to be appropriate, with the receiver being in control. All emails have to have the option to unsubscribe, it’s right down at the bottom in the small print. Give it 7 days from the point of registering your disinterest and if they still send then contact them direct;y, they will have to take this seriously now.
On that issue, this is where we have ended up, blame everyone culture. Just take back control it’s not difficult.

On banking information. It’s advisable to show caution, but there are serious ramifications for mismanaging data such as this. If you go to my account there’s a document uploaded, this is a secure link. If they say they destroy the data after viewing then they must, if they don’t they can be fined heavily. It’s further speculation bordering on paranoia saying they will be irresponsible.

Beyond all this, if you really want to pass the credentials then open up a separate bank account/ bond with adequate funds showing. Sure it’s a bind but again it’s just good housekeeping. I’ve had a designated bank for gambling for over 10 years, everyone should consider getting their accounts in order based on the environment they find themselves in.

This leaves us with the ethics. Ofc people should be annoyed, but it’s the hand wringing MPs who are out of line, you should be getting p1ssed off with them, they don’t really care about your freedom, they are bending over to the ill thought out emotional lot, the same who haven’t thought out the gender cr4p and listened to the voices who supplied confirmation biases. Now the whole information is landing and the picture is changing….as will the gambling environment once this made period has been weathered.
By:
dustybin
When: 31 Jul 22 07:45
*mad
By:
CLYDEBANK29
When: 31 Jul 22 10:15
I read this and I automatically thought of Affordability Checks ..........

Ms J.T. writes: In April, I was on holiday in Tenerife with my partner when he suffered a massive heart attack and died. After getting myself back home, I needed to bring him home so I contacted his bank, NatWest, as his account included travel insurance. I supplied his death certificate, but a month later I checked his emails and there were endless messages from NatWest, asking him to get in touch about his claim. I emailed and called, reminding the bank that the claim was for the £3,000-plus cost of bringing his body back, and unfortunately the dead body could not contact them. Tony Hetherington replies: You might think that you had gone far enough by reminding them, but no. Letters began to arrive from NatWest, all addressed to your dead partner, asking him to make contact. You gave me one that was sent to him in June, saying: 'We've tried to contact you as we need some information to progress your claim. Please give us a call.'  Tried to contact you! For heaven's sake – what were they using? A medium? A ouija board?

You called the bank again and again, and eventually you said you wanted to make an official complaint. The result? Another letter urging your late partner to get in touch!
All this was from the travel insurance side of the business. Meanwhile, NatWest's banking operation was fine. It closed your partner's account and sent you the balance as you are the executor of his estate.  The closest you got to an explanation was in one of your many phone calls to NatWest. When you explained once more that there was no point in asking a dead man to give them a call, the speaker told you that emails and letters were automatically generated and 'the computer settings could not be altered'. You told me that the whole episode was a macabre version of the Little Britain sketch, with you insisting that your partner was dead and could not give them a ring, and NatWest insisting: 'Computer says no!'
By:
mega88
When: 31 Jul 22 13:03
What a load of whingers, upload your docs new season starting soon!! Betfair don't care u only on min wage sonts, just following the new regs..
By:
howard
When: 31 Jul 22 13:10
"Beyond all this, if you really want to pass the credentials then open up a separate bank account/ bond with adequate funds showing. Sure it’s a bind but again it’s just good housekeeping. I’ve had a designated bank for gambling for over 10 years, everyone should consider getting their accounts in order based on the environment they find themselves in."

Dusty, I don't think they will care you much you have in the bank or big gambling winnings from yesterday and back in time. What they want is to see regular non-gambling income wages or pension etc.
By:
howard
When: 31 Jul 22 13:13
Same as  McCarthy and Stone with my mother.  Didn't care about property she owns now or capital in the bank. Just how much in pensions coming in each month.
By:
freddiewilliams
When: 31 Jul 22 13:34
What is adequate funds
By:
dustybin
When: 31 Jul 22 13:39
Theres loads of speculation howard as to what they actually want, and unless they actually say what they want to the person when they ask for it it will be open for debate.

Ive said a few times if people are concerned about privacy and the request is 'source of funds' then capital counts towards that and opening a bond (can get 6mth bonds paying 2% atm) would be a way of doing that and cutting out all the personal info. (that is if they accept that, which they should)

There was another issue I hadnt highlighted. This horrible rhetoric 'The Crack Cocaine of Gambling' (refering to fobts/slots)
Well this is obsolete given the fact the MPs used it to poison the nation as to the general ills of betting. You cant define the singular dangers (albiet tiny) of fobt/slots and group them with the general activities of all gambling by using Affordability as a weapon, but that is exactly what they did. If they had a problem with the 'crack cocaine' part, then limit to only slots.

It should always have been a simple question of anyone wanting to play slots- 'Is this for entertainment, or do you believe you will make a profit?
Answer profit, then the user needs taking to one side and educating.
The rest just left alone.
By:
freddiewilliams
When: 31 Jul 22 13:51
Say I'm restricted too 100 a month
I show them a bank statement with 10k or 20k or 50k
In it. What will they put my limit up to
By:
dustybin
When: 31 Jul 22 14:03
Think somebody said bf calculate it as 0.5% per month
By:
dustybin
When: 31 Jul 22 14:04
It would help if bf did their own damn clarification through a newsletter of another QA
The problem is those that bought the exchange years ago arnt great at innovation.
By:
freddiewilliams
When: 31 Jul 22 14:35
0.5 can't be right.
As for Rico 5k deposit limit a month?
That not be  much good when he lays 1000 shots
By:
dustybin
When: 31 Jul 22 14:59
I cant verify it one way or the other just reporting what Id read on here, though it seems dependent on the individual experience.

But why cant 0.5% be right?
They wont calculate it on sustainability more on annuity Id imagine. I doubt if bookies have a responsibility to think of protecting your nest egg.
By:
dustybin
When: 31 Jul 22 15:02
The state calculates a ridiculous rate of return on capital for its own purposes that is impossible to attain unless you put it into some banana republic cyrpto scheme
By:
.Marksman.
When: 31 Jul 22 15:51
These Affordability Checks are just the start of a process to control the population.  Gamblers are just an easy target and the masses can be convinced that this a justifiable action. But, in the end, they will come for everyone.  It will be NeoCommunism:  At first just a cashless society.  Then a system of electronic rationing of resources, such as energy and healthcare.  Once this rationing has become common place, even electronic money can be scrapped.  They will claim that this will stop undesirable practices such as gambling and prostitution.  People who try to escape the new system by hording gold will be firstly demonized and then prosecuted.  You don't have to watch Neil Oliver's monologue to see what is happening.  The OP says that this is the end for him, but eventually it will be the end for all our freedoms.
By:
hectoratoratora
When: 31 Jul 22 16:01
Former profitable punter here,about £180k net up on lifetime p+l.Now i just have occasional recreational bets and am losing slowly so the balance of the account is generally less than £1000 .I can easily live without BF.
Theres no way i would acquiesce to BF poking its nose into how i spend my money.
So the question is ,does anyone know if i am asked to do a affordibility check and i refuse point blank ,if i tell them to close te account will they hand over the balance?
By:
freddiewilliams
When: 31 Jul 22 16:15
Rico on 5k a day limit
By:
JML
When: 31 Jul 22 20:59
I was on £5K a day until I used it.

Well over £50K in PC since last year and on a new limit of £100/month.
By:
SontaranStratagem
When: 31 Jul 22 21:30
Disgraceful

Basically I think its them saying winning will not be tolerated full stop with all this now

Even small losses are frowned upon it seems as well

Basically do you balance on casino games or feck off is their attitude
By:
duffy
When: 31 Jul 22 23:53
I say again, how can it be affordability if all they are asking for is wage slips and bank statements.

You can't judge someones affordability by seeing their income alone.

If you bring in 10k a week but somehow have 10k and £1 going out you can't afford it.

If you bring in £500 a week and have £50 going out you can afford it.

Only a complete break down of all incomings and OUTGOINGS will determine affordbility.

So no, it isn't anything to do with afforability and it isn't anything to do with proof of income because if it was you could redact everything else.

This whole thing IMO, is designed to filter out unwanted players and the current climate has given them the cover story to carry it out.
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