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Ridiculous Statement from Ministry of Justice on Ched Evans
Ridiculous Statement from Ministry of Justice on Ched Evans
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The fact the toxicology report only found cocaine and marijuana in her system and nothing like rohpynol, etc.
She was seen walking perfectly able on CCTV at the hotel. She claims to have only drank four vodkas and two glasses of wine, hardly enough to cause memory loss and incapcitate decsion making. She had a tiny amount of alcohol in her system when tested that same day. Date rape drugs are used as date rape drugs because they leave a person system quickly and are hard to detect. Eyewitness who were there said she was extremely drunk. 4 double vokas, 2 glasses of wine and and a shot of samba consumed in the space of 90 minutes can be enough to cause memory loss. The offence happened at about 5am and she went to the police that evening. |
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*sambuca
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correct Fred, and the two he heard could have been McDonald and the complainant
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you are cherry picking the evidence there MASSIVE. What about the night porter? The kebab shop? She thought she left her bag in the taxi and it was in kebab shop, where she fell over on her arse and Evans had to step over her to speak to McDonald in the kebab shop.
Rohypnol? She didn't claim she was drugged? |
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2.5 times over the legal driving limit is nowhere near enough to be considered incapable of making decsions, absolutely nowhere near.
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drink affects different people differently
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are you sure about that MASSIVE?
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2.5 times over the legal driving limit is nowhere near enough to be considered incapable of making decsions, absolutely nowhere near
That was the defence position on how drunk she was. |
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one of my mates used to be called '3 pint turn'. 3 pints and he'd get his knob out in the pub, didn't know where he was. Hasn't drank in 10+ years
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themover 06 Jan 15 12:57 Joined: 25 Apr 03 | Topic/replies: 37,324 | Blogger: themover's blog
correct Fred, and the two he heard could have been McDonald and the complainant According to the court case, McDonald and the girl finished having sex as soon as Evans arrived. So you are questioning the evidence the jury used to come up with a verdict? |
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All in all, probably safest to just ban women from drinking alcohol in future so these cases don't arise.
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"According to the court case, McDonald and the girl finished having sex as soon as Evans arrived. So you are questioning the evidence the jury used to come up with a verdict?"
That's what McDonald and Evans said. The night porter would have no idea who was having sex with who inside the room. |
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themover 06 Jan 15 13:06 Joined: 25 Apr 03 | Topic/replies: 37,326 | Blogger: themover's blog
"According to the court case, McDonald and the girl finished having sex as soon as Evans arrived. So you are questioning the evidence the jury used to come up with a verdict?" That's what McDonald and Evans said. The night porter would have no idea who was having sex with who inside the room. In acquitting McDonald the jury clearly concluded that he had been with the woman long enough beforehand to make a judgement on whether to consent to sex with him. If you are now claiming that Evans was in the room longer than previously stated in the case before having sex with her, then she had time to make a judgment on that too. |
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How on earth can a person hear consensual sex?
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She was not in a capacity to consent to sexual intercourse with Evans so the amount of time with Evans is irrelevant
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lurka 06 Jan 15 13:08 Joined: 25 Oct 10 | Topic/replies: 9,235 | Blogger: lurka's blog
Jan 6, 2015 -- 12:54PM, FredRescue wrote: themover 06 Jan 15 12:45 Joined: 25 Apr 03 | Topic/replies: 37,321 | Blogger: themover's blogWhen she entered the hotel the night porter described her as "very drunk", you seemed to have missed that bit out. Also McDonald, on leaving the room, had a brief word with the night porter, telling him that he should look out for the girl in room 14 (the room in question) because she was sick.The same porter who walked passed the room after Evans arrived and said he heard the sound of two consenting adults going at it?I am not sure why McDonald telling the porter to look out for the girl would point towards some kind of guilt? As has been pointed out the woman had consumed little alcohol, so her "sickness" could have been anything. why did you insert the word 'consenting' here? Do you need to read the evidence again perhaps? To differentiate it from rape perhaps? ie. The porter did not think it was anything unusual. Or are you suggesting he thought it was a rape going on and did nothing about it? |
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themover 06 Jan 15 13:12 Joined: 25 Apr 03 | Topic/replies: 37,328 | Blogger: themover's blog
She was not in a capacity to consent to sexual intercourse with Evans so the amount of time with Evans is irrelevant What is the legal definition for capacity to consent to sexual intercourse? |
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How quickly does it act on/leave the system?
It is quick acting, with noticeable effects occurring within 20 minutes of ingestion. Mixed without alcohol the effects last 8 - 12 hours, with alcohol the effects last longer, up to 36 hours. After ingestion it can be found in the blood stream for 24 hours and in urine samples for 48 hours. I guess that puts an end to possible date rape drug accusations so only alcohol can be responsible. By her own admission that was less than she usually had to drink. Can you not possibly concieve that she wasn't that intoxicated on 2 glasses of wine and four vodkas that she could make decisions? She may have been drunk but she wasn't so drunk that she couldn't walk with high heels on to the hotel room observed by CCTV. |
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"A complainant consents if, and only if, she has the freedom and capacity to make a choice, and she exercised that choice to agree to sexual intercourse."
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there is no legal definition, there are numerous legal incapacities, like intoxication, being a minor, mentally incapable etc but they have to be shown. Capacity is assumed unless shown otherwise
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from the appeal :
"There are two ways in which drink and/or drugs can affect an individual who is intoxicated. First, it can remove inhibitions. A person may do things when intoxicated which she would not do, or be less likely to do if sober. Secondly, she may consume so much alcohol and/or drugs that it affects her state of awareness. So you need to reach a conclusion upon what was the complainant's state of intoxication, such as you may find it to be. Was she just disinhibited, or had what she had taken removed her capacity to exercise a choice?" He went on to explain: "A woman clearly does not have the capacity to make a choice if she is completely unconscious through the effects of drink and drugs, but there are various stages of consciousness, from being wide awake to dim awareness of reality. In a state of dim and drunken awareness you may, or may not, be in a condition to make choices. So you will need to consider the evidence of the complainant's state and decide these two questions: was she in a condition in which she was capable of making any choice one way or another? If you are sure that she was not, then she did not consent. If, on the other hand, you conclude that she chose to agree to sexual intercourse, or may have done, then you must find the defendants not guilty." |
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themover 06 Jan 15 13:15 Joined: 25 Apr 03 | Topic/replies: 37,329 | Blogger: themover's blog
"A complainant consents if, and only if, she has the freedom and capacity to make a choice, and she exercised that choice to agree to sexual intercourse." 2.5 times over the legal driving limit removes that capacity? |
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I don't know Fred, I'm no expert on that. That was the defence's estimation, I don't know what the prosecutions was.
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just cherry pick the evidence as to the amount of alcohol she drank. Ignore all the other evidence in the case and draw a conclusion
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I guess that puts an end to possible date rape drug accusations so only alcohol can be responsible.
How exactly? |
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what date rape drug accusations?
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how long does coke stay in the system for?
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She said she thought her drink may have been spiked at some stage during the time she was out. Get on is trying to say this is impossible because there was no trace of any drugs in her system. GHB will leave the blood stream within 8 hours.
It's irrelevant anyway as the issue is whether she was too intoxicated not how she got that way. |
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According to this website rohypnol couldn't have been used.
http://health.uark.edu/Rohypnol_Fact_Sheet.pdf Is it detectable and how long does it stay in your system? YES. A urine test can detect the presence of Rohypnol up to 60 hours after ingestion, but most experts say that 24 hours maximum can yield better results. This test must be ordered by a health professional because it is not part of a normal “tox screen.” Rohypnol can be more difficult to detect than similar drugs because it is in low concentrations and is cleared quickly by the body. |
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no but the timings could cast serious doubt on it.
she could have been doing coke in the bar and then after she had had sex with evans she may have hit the wall ..and that could ahve explained why mcdonald told the porter to keep an eye out for her. |
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So? She never said she was roofied she said her drink may have been spiked. That's not impossible as you say because some date rape drugs such as GHB will leave the body completely within 8-12 hours.
It's irrelevant anyway as the issue is whether she was too intoxicated to consent not how she got that way. |
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when was she too intoxicated?
were they still drinking after sex? if coke was in her system what affect would that had on the timings? also what effect would that have had on her mental wellbeing at the time of the alleged rap and in the morning well after ? |
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If anything coke is more likely to clear the mind and sober you up.
I've never met anyone who was ever incapcitated on coke. |
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when was she too intoxicated?
were they still drinking after sex? if coke was in her system what affect would that had on the timings? He was convicted because she was too intoxicated when he was having intercourse with her. The Cocaine and Cannabis were found only in Urine and not her blood sample and were therefore estimated to have been consumed 2-8 days previously. |
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i agree....bit i also think that the effects of coke wearing off may have led mcdonald to tell the porter to keep an eye on her.
if you have done a load of booze in a short space of time and the drug wears off it will hit you. if she did do coke and from what her bar bill was from the bar reported, this could well have happened, people wont admit in court ot taking drugs unless they are caught on camera. a footballer certainly wont.....that will make you think. |
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the traces of coke were found to be consistent with her having taken it a few days beforehand. Cannabis stays in urine for a month too.
Evans brought in 2 intoxication experts. One was Professor John Birch, a consultant pharmacologist, a professor of biomedical science. He said:- "But the fact that she does no longer remember having made a decision is a failure of the memory process and not of the decision-making process. Evidence of memory loss as a result of anterior-grade amnesia does not in itself prove that she lacked the capacity to consent." So, we have a Professor, a very qualified intoxication expert, paid by Evans, and he wasn't prepared to say that the amount of drink she consumed couldn't have affected her consent. But we have a few people on this thread who categorically state that it couldn't have. What are your qualifications? If you're not an expert like Professor Birch, there is no need to answer. |
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