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Ridiculous Statement from Ministry of Justice on Ched Evans
Ridiculous Statement from Ministry of Justice on Ched Evans
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Replies: 574
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its the reasonable doubt bit..
if she is under the influence of coke...its a whole different ball game. what were here drinking habits the days leading up to the incident? was she out on the lash the night before? |
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She was not in a capacity to consent to sexual intercourse with Evans so the amount of time with Evans is irrelevant
Did her "capacity" alter so much between deeming to consent with McDonald and being "raped" by Evans? There is no evidence that she had any further alcohol (or anything else apart from pizza) after she attached herself to McDonald and went with him. The fact that she claimed total loss of memory after having sex with McDonald seems questionable. |
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She was not deemed to consent with McDonald. Read the case
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But we have a few people on this thread who categorically state that it couldn't have. What are your qualifications? If you're not an expert like Professor Birch, there is no need to answer.
No one is saying she categorically couldn't have been drunk enough not to give consent with two glasses of wine and four vodkas in her system. In fact it's you lot saying she categorically was intoxicated enough not to give consent otherwise it would be reasonable doubt. On the balance of probabilities any reasonable person would have to conclude that she probably could ingest that much alcohol and still be aware of her decsion making. |
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McDonald was very lucky imho
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and Evans was lucky it wasn't the Premier Inn Dubai
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are you taking that post back then?
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No. Her capacity didn't alter at all. She didn't have capacity to consent with either man
That's why it's difficult for the lay person to comprehend why McDonald wasn't also convicted of rape. |
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On the balance of probabilities any reasonable person would have to conclude that she probably could ingest that much alcohol and still be aware of her decsion making.
Of course she could. Theres no way to say a particular amount of units or level of alcohol in someones blood stream means they do not have the capacity to consent. Thats why evidence was led from witnesses. No one knows how much alcohol she consumed. She said she had 4 double vodkas, 2 glasses of wine and a shot from what she remembered. That doesn't mean her memory didn't also affect her counting drinks she consumed. From what she said in evidence she consumed about 14 units of alcohol in about 90 minutes. Most 19 year old females would be drunk if they had consumed the equaivalent of 7 pints in about 90 minutes. |
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Others say that this sort of thing goes on all over the country every weekend. No it does not.
Consider the time between when McDonald met her up until the moment immediately before Evans burst in. That is the type of thing that happens all over the country every weekend, drunk girl goes back with drunk man. I have some sympathy for McDonald in that regard and I can understand that point in relation to his case (assuming he didn't have the intention of finding a 'victim' from before he met her, which the prosecution alleged). What Evans did does not happen every weekend all over the country. I have no sympathy for him based on the facts of the case. The jury could have gone either way but they didn't and the appeal judges didn't find anything perverse in that. |
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I will say I was talking generally rather than categorically so I apologise if you interprutted it like that.
Are you categorically stating she must have been incapicitated with that much alcohol in her system? |
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No, I am certainly not saying that. Why would I say that when a qualified expert couldn't? I am saying that on the evidence the jury was in a position to make a decision either way. If there was categorical evidence either way they probably wouldn't have been. There was no categorical evidence either way, the experts' evidence shows that and they would never have said 'she must have been incapacitated' anyway because they were Evans' witnesses. If they were going to say that he would have called someone else.
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and in any event the experts' evidence was not subjective, it was objective, ie what might the affect of this much alcohol have on a woman of her age etc, not on the victim herself. That was all it was ever going to be, unless it was absolutely categorical about the affect on a girl of her age etc, which it wasn't.
It was not 'what was the affect of this much alcohol on THIS woman generally or on that night'. You've got to consider that against direct evidence of what her actual state was on the night, the porter, the kebab shop etc |
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The jury effectively found that whether she said yes to him or not was irrelevant. She didn't have capacity even if she said yes. All of that was based on evidence of drink already consumed at that point and of those who saw the state she was in.
Lurka, this is what I really don't understand. How could she give her consent to McDonald but not to Evans? The thinking seems to be that because she was with McDonald for around 30 minutes leading up to the sex, that means he had reasonable grounds for thinking there was some sort of understanding between them. But if McDonald's beliefs about her consent were relevant to his case, why weren't Evans' beliefs relevant to his own case? You can't have it both ways. Either she was in no capacity to consent to sex with either of them, or else the beliefs of both men become relevant. Now, of course, if you want to argue that the jury simply didn't believe that she had given consent to Evans, then that becomes a different matter. But according to you, she couldn't have given consent no matter what. But in that case, surely, she couldn't have given consent to McDonald either, regardless of the time spent with him. |
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Any news from Oldham about the rapist?
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Not releasing any news today. Expected to sign tomorrow.
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lurka 04 Jan 15 23:55 Joined: 25 Oct 10 | Topic/replies: 9,251 | Blogger: lurka's blog
he hasn't done his time. read the case Lurka, Just for you I'll rephrase it to "he's done his time , as in he has entered the prison and stayed there until he was let out by the authorities and allowed to live outside again". The distinction between that and the rules applying to a prisoner on licence is utterly irrelevant to the point I was making. |
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Not releasing any news today. Expected to sign tomorrow.
No!! - will be commercial suicide if they do, unbelievable!!! All that negative public opinion - bloody idiots |
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Others say that this sort of thing goes on all over the country every weekend. No it does not.
Sorry,lurka but you have led a sheltered life,it certainly does but most 'victims'shrug and get on with it. That isn't to condone such behaviour but it happens a lot more than just one isolated case. |
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HonkeyJoe
Lurka, this is what I really don't understand. How could she give her consent to McDonald but not to Evans? A good question, in fact it is PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE She either was in a state to make decisions for herself or she was not, it is simple as that. Since they cleared McDonald they must clear Evans In fact from videos at the hotel it appeared she was in a state to make decisions, so both men are innocent unless there is EVIDENCE that her decision making ability changed between having sex with McDonald and Evans I have yet to see this evidence...ergo Evans is innocent The Jury were wrong, so the Judges if they uphold this decision. Also he has served the custodial part of his sentence, he is allowed to return to work or in fact leave the country. Anything else is a violation of his human rights as bad as Russia, China or N.Korea Still it is difficult to argue against the brain dead Evans is innocent, my opinion, others differ. ps People who are drunk can make decisions. If you let them off the consequences of their actions, we must free all drunk drivers who have killed. |
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so you can tell from someone walking into a hotel whether or not they are in the capacity to consent to sex or not? Wow ebul you must be an expert
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why doesn't the chedevans site post the other videos?
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themover • January 6, 2015 7:10 PM GMT
so you can tell from someone walking into a hotel whether or not they are in the capacity to consent to sex or not? Wow ebul you must be an expert Laugh No I cannot, but either can anyone else clever clogs Nobody can tell so there was never a case to answer was there. Since nobody can prove anything how can Evans be found guilty without proof. No proof, no guilt |
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The tragedy here is professional footballers have a shelf life, and Evans is watching his career rapidly
disappearing out of the window. The best way and kindest to deal with this now, is to allow Evans to go abroad and try to pick up his career. Women are making sure he wont ever play here again, women never forgive or forget. Anything else shows what a petty and vindictive country we have become. That is the common sense solution. |
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I think you should see your psychiatrist re unresolved mother issues.
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Oh dear oh dear not sure that some of you posters should be on here..
You do realise that everything that you say or do can be traced back to you.. Those of us with a brain use devices that cannot be traced.... Incidentally I have never met anyone that in the situation that the half-wit Ched Evans was in would not have been tempted when p issed... On the flip side I have have also never met a heterosexual man that would be against him... Not sure about the sexuality of some people on here....  |
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1/ Luke McCormick
2/ Gary Croft 3/ Tony Adams 4/ Peter Storey 5/ Joe Barton 6/ Jan Molby 7/ Jermaine Pennant 8/ Marlon Harewood 9/ Micky Quinn 10/ George Best 11/ Duncan Ferguson Subs : Stig Tofting Ched Evans Micky Thomas Lee Hughes |
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Did some half-wit really say that online to me...
Oh Dear Oh Dear.... |
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A bit rich you calling someone a half wit ffs
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Love it...
As I am a dirty old tramp .. Hang on while I back my 17 year old Daughters Mini Clubman into the drive... Just as well that I am a dirty old champ... Those cars do no come for free... |
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Amazing is it not
I have suggested a perfect solution for everybody and people will still object Nobody wants Ched Evans in this country, so let him play abroad. People like Captain Christy will still object Well I will well you why, they are pig ignorant for a start, hear the word rapist and their brains cells disappear out the window and insist on inflicting further punishment on him....although to any thinking person it should be obvious he is innocent If I was younger I would certainly go abroad This country is now a dank bucket of pi$$..and the one reason we have handed power over to women and we have adopted their values of pettiness and vindictiveness..which is very sad, because women are lovely in their place men left the paddock gate open I am reluctantly stuck here, Africa would suit me, In the colonial days would have been best, also I really like their attitude their women and gays...they keep them in their place, simple. oh well |
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Prehistoric days would have suited you I reckon
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Captain Christy in your case your favorite Dinosaur would be a Straponasaurousrex...
Rex being the name of your dog.... |
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Nowt more boring than a drunk is there?
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Consent is not required if you have those reasonable grounds. That's what the statute says. That is the law in the UK
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it's not so much about what either man's 'beliefs' were, more about how reasonable the grounds for those beliefs were
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