The reason most of us do not make long term profit is because.

*enjoyed

In Dogs years & how I feel at the moment about 300 years old.Full of cold & can't sleep.
But 51 years young.Was forty footloose & fancy free now I'm 51 with 4 kids under 10.
So I did get a little more philosophocal when the wee's arrived,bless em.

Here,I'll post a couple of silly things that I have picked up on here to keep me focussed.
I have small pictures of my children around the monitor,theory being that it reminds me that I have to be sensible nowadays because of my brood.
I now have a set amount of cash that I play with on hear.Whenever I have draw off Betfair I use it for stupid stuff & days out at the zoo etc.
That works for me because if I get a decent payout I immediately see it as a new pair of footy boots for Dj or a day at flamingoland etc.So generally I get it out before I blow it.

Sensible way of doing things alright, it takes thinks like that to make you focus.. The recession has made me focus on gambling , im now much more careful with my bets as you cant throw money around these days.

I think you need to be a bean counter (Accountant) to do the job properly on here.Anyone with the cool could win on here.But I guess it's 1 in a 1000 that can actually do it.
I would have thought if it worked Hypnotherapy could do it.It is only a mind set,when all said & done.

Fascinating thread.

This bit interested me...

"I can honestly say that the work that he did was the most boring long drawn out job I have ever seem anyone do."

...as it has been something I've been thinking about recently. I've come to the conclusion that making money from sports betting is a lot like being a sniper. You have to sit still for hour after hour until the conditions are right for the perfect shot. And there's still a chance you might miss anyway. And if you do miss, don't grab a machinegun and run towards the target screaming "I want my bullet back" because you'll lose all your ammo and end up dead. Just move on to the next 'kill'.

Edward Fox in The Day of the Jackal was cool. In the movie he drove a sports car and had sex with a lady.....something every Betfait punter dreams about. But his life was cold and empty and nobody came to his funeral. I think this is how every pro-punter's life ends.

When I lived in Japan I had the chance to socialise with some truly wealthy ex-pats. They mostly made their money on the stock market (the respectable form of gambling) and they were all, without exception, the dullest bunch of sociopaths you could ever meet. I envied them their money, but nothing else.

Somebody once said of some entertainer "In order to get what he wanted, he had to lose what he had" and I think that's true of anyone who dreams of being a 'pro-punter'. It really is possible to make a living doing this...but you'll have to turn yourself into a android to get there.

Rambling thoughts....but it is 6am for God's sake!!!!

Right 2 things,1 is I'll do the happy ending behaviour & then I'll give up.But I reckon I'll start a thread with gambling stories happy & sad.It could be good.Some of you wrapscallions out there should have some great tales of swanking a few quid out of the Dirty filthy bookies satchells.I know I have.
When your waiting patiently for a correct score or whatever,just put your goal alert on & read away.Sounds like a good idea to me.

Happy ending.Gets home,I'm banned from gambling with my ex er in doors.So she knows nothing.She wants to know why I am not a happy bunny.As tomorrow was the day that we were picking up my Whippet puppy that I had been waiting for for over 3 years.
Being brought up around horses etc,we had always had a couple of Whippets & a Jack Russel or 2.Cause most people think that Whippets go with flat caps & Barnsley etc.Which is probably true.But also Whippets are also the favourite dogs of Horsey people as well.Henry Cecil,Princess Anne etc are all Whippet lovers.Lot of jockeys too.
Oh I'm a peasant by the way,also most people brought up in the horse world are skint or mad,probably both.AnywayI slink off to bed as the interrogations getting hotter & I dont do lying to well having just dropped nearly 5k etc.I'm in bed trying to get my head round getting my new puppy.By the way a Whippet won Crufts 2 years previous & my little babby was from the same Breeder hence the wait to get her because she was costing me £500-00 & the wait for nearly 3 litters was because she had to be not Show quality as she would have been 1000's.I only wanted her as a pet so that didn't matter.Anyhow I had paid for her & all I had to pay was £40-00 for her jabs etc.So had a sleep then remembered that I was about potless for my 5 days solid placepots & gambling frenzy.
Must have been mentally exhausted so I didn't wake up till about 11am.I had to pick er in doors up from her work & then go & get my puppy.
Obviously on my way I had to sneak into the bookies to put on a bet or 2.I'd got just over a 100,which on a normal day would have been great.But having had all that cash & to make matters worse I just realized that I never even got to hold it,not even for a second.Cause I was thinking that if I'd got to hold the 5k I most probably would have bonded with it & not treated it so badly.I cannot even remember the 2k that I did in Ladbrokes.I really hate Ladbrokes & Bill Hills.
Anyway I rush into my favouriteshop in town,got about 10 minutes before I have to pick up the growler.Anyway I didn't have enough for a decent placepot,didn't have enough to have a decent couple of trebles or whatever.So I just in my hurry picked out a s**t load of favourites & 2nd favourites.Ended up with 10 selections over 3 meetings.I was totally lairy in those days always going to do big style etc.
The bet was 10p full cover which is doubles & upwards,thats 1013 bets + a 3.70 10 sel accum.I alway round up a big multi so as then if you get them all in you dont want just a 10p x 10 horse do you.Anyhow when I went to place my bet it was £105-00.I had a £150+ change but needed £40-00 for my puppy.David (The manger) said as you do,do you want to pay the taxwhich was another £10-50.If you paid tax on the stake then your winnings were tax free.So I'm scrambling around trying to find the extra £10-50,I end up with a tenner,David says no problem give me the 50p when your in next.(I'm getting fed up now & I aren't nearly done yet.)Just in a milly second of saying brilliant & thank you I hear the first show for the dogs.Me thinks in a milly second cant do no harm.If there is a god he isn't going to trap 6 me to days on the trot.So I says no tax & whacks my tenner on the 6 dog.No prizes 6 dog 5-2 finishes 6th.It was only a tenner & I'm off to get my new best friend.

Spent the whole afternoon being grilled by the breeder,who made Barbara Woodhouse seem like a nun.You would have thought we were taking her children away the she was suddenly doubting us etc.Were we stable enough as a couple,what if we split up blah blah blah.I was nearly brain dead by the time we got back home.To make matters worse puppy had been sick in me new motor.I wanted to check my bet & couldn't because the growler was on patrol.Then When she went outside with puppy to show off to the neighbours the teletext wasn't working.In those days if it was a bit stormy or whatever you couldn't always get it to work.

What a fu**ing horrible week I was having.Went to bed with a headache,no problem with thw growler as she had her new substitute baby etc.
Anyway I woke up about 10pm ish she's asleep on the settee so gets the results up for Ascot.Only problem now is I cant get the slip out properly cause she could sniff a betting slip from a 100 yards.(My Mother said that the reason I was fat was because of the amount of betting slips that I had eaten,so she wouldn't find them.
Well half asleep etc I thought definately got at least 3 of them there & one was 13-2 second fav & had finished 2nd but the winner (fav) was disqualified for hampering the 3rd horse.
So I snook out to the bath room & checked my slip.Yep 6-4 5-4 13-2 scooby doo.Tried to remember the 4 at Brighton as I'm thinking that I have a good bet with just 6 maybe.Over £4-00 just for the treble.Anyway 1st at Brighton evens,then uh uh 2nd race 1-4 shot 3rd.Not so good,forgot the other 2 there so snook off again,by the way dont hold me on the prices of all of em cause it was a long time ago & I've just remembered as well that it was 1990 as well not 92.
The next 2 were winners & the 10p x 6 timer was well over £100-00.So I knew I  was on an earner.By this time it was getting a little tense.Every move I made & she was looking like waking up.I wanted to shake her & tell her we might be going on Holiday early,but knew I couldn't.She for some reason had a real bad thing about gambling.I swear it wasn't me as she was like that when we met & her Dad was so tight he wouldn't have had 10p each way on the national.Strange but true.

By this time fearing the excitment would soon be over with the last all losing,well it was Southwell National Hunt.
So I have now gone to looking at the next selection on it's own.
Now I dont know if it's just me that covers the whole screen to then reveal going up what was 3rd & then 2nd,then you go from right to left to slowly reveal the price & then if your still hopefull the last letter of the horse.Then you check how many horses have an e as the last,your still there & the other e was an outsider & this one's 2's.Then Winner you've got a 10p Super Hienz.Must nearly have my 5 k back by now.Still cant stir the Growler.Back to see my next selection.Can remember that it was short lived because she was 2nd at friggin 8's as well.Bucket of cold water job that was.(Turned out latter that she lead til the line,was mention 1st in the photo then it went for a print & took nearly half an hour to announce.David said latter that everyone thought she had wonndead heat at worst.Anyway just about to check my last selection & you guessed it the growler woke up & spent 20 minutes fluffing around puppy,by god she just wouldn't go to bed.Anyway eventualy she's gone so I dont do the toilet sneaky thing.I can rember doing the revealy thing on the telly.(I'm thinking I might be a bit mad or doe's anyone else do that)Anyway alls going well,not 3rd or 2nd & then not 1st.Boooo, I am fairly happy no I'm holding my hand out but still slightly deflated.Anyway I spent the next 2 hours with my calculator (no bet check like you get nowadays)a&b then a&c etc etc.Saying that I used to love doing all the working out etc anyway.If I remember rightly I got it to just over 4500-00.Happy days,Trotted into the bookies about 10am to big smiles from the girls.They always knew they would be getting a nice tip etc.Anyway I said jokingly to David that I didn't want him to do the same trick or delay that Willies did in the first place.He said that he couldn't even do that as they had to send the camera film in the til away to there security dept & it would take 2-4 days.Not too happy,but he said he would be able to get me a grand if I needed it & said it was company policy for all wins over 10,000.10k hang on a minute.I couldn't have been that far out.So I ask him how much it was for,he answers just over 11,000 less 10% tax.(That ****ing 6 dog cost me another 1000 was my first thought.)Next thought is how the big difference.Anyway I'm sat there having a coffee & he is showing me the bet in his settler thingy & he's typing in the prices & he put in an 8th selection @ 4-5.I immediately start thinking ba*stard they have my last loser as a winner.There's now way they arent going to spot that at security.So I leave with my grand & then I start thinking that when they spot the **** up it could delay my cash,also it could get David in trouble for not spotting the **** up.So I decide to come clean.Just to be sure that there wasn't anyhope of them spotting the mistake I thought I'd run it past a m8,who used to work for Filthy Ladbrokes.We are having abit of late breakfast & he gets his racing post out to double check prices etc.Also to see how the losers faired.Anyway we gets to the last at Southwell.

Short Break.

excellent stuff, must go to work now but will add some thoughts and comments on this tonight. You certainly reached an epiphany late last night

Great read.

christ, they are long posts

Duncan your right m8.It's scared me abit to truthful.Cause the reason I dont go my lads wii & ps3 is because they are just time stealers.
So I apologize m8,I will try to take a more concise spin on things if I can.

only messin, real deal....i read opening post and thought this seemed an interesting thread for once then BOOM...two more whoppers!....i'll get round to reading them at my leisure later. Thanks for posting.

There have been numerous discussions on here and General Betting about this things you mention (discipline, dedication, etc).  They are always an interesting read, as is this.

Unfortunately most of those threads just turn into cliches.  Everyone quotes "discipline", "dedication".  Everyone agrees "discipline", "dedication".  And that's it.  everyone leaves knowing that to be successful they need "discipline." But, of course, it's a big cliche.

The other cliche is that winners are accountants.  That winning is boring.  That gambling is lonely.  That it's a lot of hard work.  There are many successful gamblers for whom that is all true.  And for others it is not.

So unfortunately I rarely contribute to such threads these days.  I find that my challenge to the cliches causes offence.  I'm quite happy doing my own thing, and not arguing with others about the "best" methods.

Real Deal, I wasn't claiming to "have it" just a small part of it.  Done well enough (and I do stay fairly detatched and do understand the maths) but not even semi-pro let alone pro, I only do well in bigger NH races, everything else I glaze over and can't stay interested long enough.   The real downside is, that if I spent as much time and effort on my boring accountancy business as I do on the horses I would be considerably better off...

The original post offers up one of the keys that I am working to grasp onto more: 

He used to spend 12 hours a day with his head in the form book.He would be planning a bet weeks before & then not playing because the price wasn't as he had hoped for.  Or a horse hadn't dropped out at the 5 day decs etc.He could spend 100 hours on a race & not play.

For every bet, there needs to be an extensive amount of time spent RESEARCHING the play.  It reads as though he targeted the weekend racing and made his selections.

Now, with the internet, right before bed, we are laying down money in California then, if we are up soon enough, can have a bet in Australia.  You can be watching the Premier League on Saturday night and backing Osaka on Sunday morning.

Any time I have spent doing proper research, I have made money.  And if that research says ignore the headlines, ignore the fave and go with what you found, more often than not, it pays off.

How he did it was an enigma to me

It's having the focus and courage to stick with discipline.  It's not an easy trait.  And putting a line through 90%+ of, in his case, races is the first step to creating focus.

There are 34 (repeat 34) horse races in the UK today.  So what is your criteria to cut those out?  Which time of races/tracks/goings/ratings will your pencil have to slice it off your schedule?

'Clint Eastwood' didn't know which races to bet on.  He knew which races NOT to bet on.

What about football?  I don't have many rules, but one is simply I don't bet odds on when a team is away.  This doesn't mean that I bet against them or lay them.  It simply means I put a line through 1X2 and, if I have a play on the match, I'll look at UO2.5 but more often than not I'll turn my attention elsewhere and use the result as a gauge for next week.


It was impossible to know whether he had a pound or a grand on.

I've often compared betting to a boxing match.  It's twelve rounds and if you throw everything you have into every punch, you will eventually run out of energy and the last thing you see is your opponents glove pushing your eyeballs into the back of your cranium.

You have three bets.  Do you have the same confidence in all of them or do you spread your chips differently?

As well, when do you put the big bucks down?  Well, when the checklist makes for the 'Perfect Pick'.

They don't come often but when they come, you know it. Not an ounce of doubt and it all comes together and you can see the result unfolding in your head.

But this moment comes from knowing when NOT to put the money down.  When it's a team you've had mixed results reading.  When the opponent to your bet has been a thorn in your side before. When the weather suddenly kicks up and the rain is starting just before the match making the potential of a random moment more likely. When you realize that the horse you are targeting is at a track that you have a dismal strike rate at reading.

But when it is "your track", the weather is perfect, the trainer is in form and the jockey is rested (something someone once pointed out to me that punters often ignore), then notch it up a bit or a lot.

Yesterday, with 8 races in Vaal, I had three bets, all researched the night before: A lay, a back and an EW.  The lay, 3/1 was successful. The back, 2/1 was not. The EW, 8/1, won paying a bit more than 4/1.  All the bets were a point so a net of three points. 

There were races in between that I ignored.  And when the third bet was done, I walked away feeling like it was a job well done.

It doesn't always go like that but research does also keep losses to a minimum.  An example from last week for me: I focused hard on the Chelsea Barcelona game.  After looking at every angle, I laid down four bets:

Chelsea (Asian Hcap) 0.75 (AH)     £100.00 @ 2.0
RESULT: £100.00

Under 2.5 £100.00 @ 2.08 (average)    
RESULT: £108.00

CORRECT SCORE: 1-1 £50 @ 7.20    
RESULT: (£50.00)

HT/FT: DRAW-DRAW £75 @ 6.50 (average)
RESULT (£75.00)

EVENT NET £75.00

It was amazing to watch the match evolve.  And as much as I made a profit, I felt fantastic after since I felt the read and how I played it was really strong.

Look at the losing bets:
HT/FT....Chelsea scored 90 seconds into injury time

Correct Score: How many chances did Barcelona have to score (and, realistically, if the match had gone 1-1, would the momentum gone towards a 2-1 result?  Chances are, I would have laid off some of the 1-1 and UO 2.5)

But everything aside, it was enough to give me that needed injection that research pays better than betting.

So build the courage to put a line through races and football matches.  Then find the time to look at the events that remain closely and take that courage one step further and trim down the selections.  If you can't get rid of a selection, then relegate it to being a flutter.

But, like 'Clint Eastwood', use your bullets sparingly and you're more likely to hit the target.

@ Real Deal - Truly excellent read mate, best thread on here in ages! Have you ever considered writing a book of your experiences? Im being serious.

More of your punting experiences/stories on this thred would be greatly appreciated imo

The other cliche is that winners are accountants.  That winning is boring.  That gambling is lonely.  That it's a lot of hard work.  There are many successful gamblers for whom that is all true.  And for others it is not.

Fair enough. Nothing is 100% absolute.

But I'd be surprised if an activity that is basically 'staring at a screen' + 'risk management' turns out many John McCriricks!

Prophet I could definately sink a few glasses of Seawater with you m8.A sense of humour with some great views as well.Same goe's for you jinkie.This is like some of the stuff you could bull s**t about in the bookies when you could smoke & not get tutted at when you made a noise cheering your horse over the last.