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how many people trading compared to those just betting, and .....
how many people trading compared to those just betting, and .....
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Replies: 247
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evening sweetchildofmine
i agree i have benefited from the input, and the questions then make you think about how you trade, but each person has to be happy and content with how you trade. it all helps martin |
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another great trade tonight..ok barca are BARCA but they were available to lay at 8/1 with less than 7 minutes left..far too good to pass up
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should have added they were 3-2 down at the time
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martin on threads like these get a notebook and cherry pick all the best points and jot them down so you dont forget them
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and remember that most of the advice comes from losers.
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mike, if you back at 1.9 then laying at anything under 1.9 will produce profit. 0.01 is 1% of stake so the lower you lay the bigger the profit.
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Bank increases for 11th and 12th please?
rat |
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hi guys hope everyone's trading well. earlier in the thread i sed how i layed sheff wed at 2.58 with 1k the day before there match with blackpool last week and backed them at 2.98 right on kickoff and this week i think i might of found another.
stoke play valencia on thursday and the current prices for me are wrong. stoke are around 3.1 and valencia are around 2.5 -2.6. i reckon closer to kick off the prices will be 2.8 for both i might be wrong but bookies are pricing this up both 6/4 so wish me luck. lay valencia @2.56 with 1k back higher before kick off |
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smithy good find, and good luck with that,
if you looked you might find an arb opportunity it you look at the bookies and that game. so the truth is no bank increase for the 11th and 12th, actually a bank decrease of 19%, which was a rescued position, by theclosee of business on Sunday why did that happen,?? well i changed the number of points that i wanted, instead of the maxumim 3 points tried to get 4 or 5 points, which was muted by a few, so i thought i would give it a go, but i was going into games too early, so got hit hard on saturday, by a couple of games on sunday i worked hard for 2 and 3 points and got them, and locked in, and also if a game turned against me, i reacted immediately, altered the position and took a defensive position to protect any downside. you dont learn if you dont try. so this week im going to take my strategy through the week,and see where we go with it i dont know why, but locking in a 2 or 3 point profit and then moving to another market, or even going back into the same market, works for me. and i need to be happy with how i do this, so that as the money increases i am comfortable doing it a way that i am happy with. cheers martin |
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sorry if i slowed you down martin
 but it worked for me so thought saying something might also benefit you, i totally agree that you need to work the way in a way you feel comfortable with and so everyones ways will be different, which is why i have stressed on many occasions to start with low stakes until you are comfortable. i suppose you can never know what your comfortable with until you find what you are also uncomfortable with, so best of luck and i hope you have no more set backs!! |
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Best thread iv read on here in a long time guys, nice to see advice being shared so willingly. I've been on here on and off for 4 years and used to trade the draw when I first started. Like most, greed got the better of me and scared me away but looking at getting up and running again thanks to the words in this thread. Will start with small stakes and learn as I go. Keep up the good work all.
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hey quin, nothing to apologise for, i am a totally open minded person, and will lesson to anyone who has a sensible and reasoned argument.
i must say though Sunday was a very focussed day, concentrated on the job in hand and got the results. so nothing major to worry about. had to move very fast on the willem game earlier, that definitely focuses the mind.one thing that i may need to look at is whether its possible to take a cross-market position to defend against a turning position. any views ?? martin |
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that willem game looks like it would have been a traders worst nightmare with all the quick goals, hope you got on in between or after and they didnt catch you out. not sure what you mean with the cross-market positions, im guessing you mean taking a position on another market to back yourself up incase things go wrong?? if so i dont think its possible, otherwise there would be no risk, which will never be the case. not sure if thats what you meant though mate, so excuse me if im way off the point
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ttt
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hi all,
still working hard on this, have had a reasonable Sunday, monday and a small net gain this evening, after the difficult Saturday. looking at the position, from when i started this, 10 days in on this and the bank is worth just over double the opening bank, and thats with taking some quite large hits. i have also learnt that its quite easy to take a few points when a team goes 2 clear goals up, so thats something that i am looking at. have to work late tomorrow so no trading tomorrow, thursday looks like there will be some opportunities. another key thing that i have found is not to get into the goals market too early, so all of my points tend to be gained in the second half of games. martin |
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look at the 0-0 if its still goal less at half time..ive noticed the odds for 0-0 tends to slowly but steadily decrease during the interval..not everytime but often enough..worst case scenario break even, as its rarely going to creep higher
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hi there
thanks for that, ive been working quietly all week, and doing ok, and going to continue through this evening and tomorrow. martin |
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hello everyone
hope we have all had a good weekend. so i started this process on the 3rd feb, as at the close of today, the bank is at 5 times the starting value, so 16 days, and this weekend i traded in my usual manner 1, 2 or 3 points, the only exception being where a game goes 2 goals clear, and then if there is money and points available i set a target at 5 points profit, and in some cases a further goal has been scored and therefore ive taken more profit. i have had about 3 games this weekend where i was on an under market, and then goals starting coming, so i have either traded out for a red, spolit equally, or if i am half goal from my position, i have then loaded my position to reverse, ie the over goal returns a scratch position. im happy now with how I am doing this, and as the money increases, i am taking more time, before taking a position, so conversely to some people I am most definitely not risking stake for the sake of it. I am now looking for net 20 market points profit per day, i think that during fri, sat and sunday thats easily achievable, but during the week evenings dont know if there will be enough games to get it. yesterday i achieved 29 pts, and today 39 pts, conversely friday less than 1pt and thursday 24 points so have a great week martin |
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great stuff martin glad its goin well. been pre game trading all week with sum bets gettin matched early in running during a match these are some of the bets.
porto vs man city layed porto @2.5 backed @2.66 stoke vs valancia layed valencia @2.58 and again @2.42 backed at 2.68 millwall vs bolton layed bolton @2.66 backed @2.9 sunderland vs arsenal layed sunderland @2.94 backed @ 3.2 crawley vs stoke layed stoke @2.04 backed @2.2 placed green across all three outcomes in the match odds to guarantee a profit. |
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smithy
good to hear it, i dont get the time to pre game really, it may be something that i look at in a couple of months, with a seperate fund. martin |
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ino wat your saying martin about the time with pre game trading. i have time to check match odds whilst at work then i'm usually at home when matches are around kick off so i'm able to trade.
in -play would be something i'm looking into to try an find an edge as the prices don't move as much pre match so its harder to make money.  |
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good stuff martin. interesting thread.
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best thread on here for many a year..should really be on general betting maybe, where it wont keep disappearing, although i accept it is predominantly football related
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Great to see this thread still going!
I always feel more comfortable trading than straight betting. Less profit but more control  |
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thanks to all for the recent input,
took a look at the week night availabiliy, and therefore have set out a template of 10 points per night 4 days per week, and 20 points on 3 days, ie friday, saturday, and sunday, anything more is a bonus. at the same time hit the daily target then take time off to relax. like i think Quin said, if you concentrate on the points as opposed to the money then it makes things easier. the control element is very important, as is the discipline. id rather keep this topic on here as i only trade football, but would move it if required. cheers all |
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thanks to all for the recent input,
took a look at the week night availabiliy, and therefore have set out a template of 10 points per night 4 days per week, and 20 points on 3 days, ie friday, saturday, and sunday, anything more is a bonus. at the same time hit the daily target then take time off to relax. like i think Quin said, if you concentrate on the points as opposed to the money then it makes things easier. the control element is very important, as is the discipline. id rather keep this topic on here as i only trade football, but would move it if required. cheers all |
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thanks to all for the recent input,
took a look at the week night availabiliy, and therefore have set out a template of 10 points per night 4 days per week, and 20 points on 3 days, ie friday, saturday, and sunday, anything more is a bonus. at the same time hit the daily target then take time off to relax. like i think Quin said, if you concentrate on the points as opposed to the money then it makes things easier. the control element is very important, as is the discipline. id rather keep this topic on here as i only trade football, but would move it if required. cheers all |
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must have press the button 3 times sorry.
another great thing i find is what just happened in the Buraspor game i opened a position on u4.5g when it was 1-0, the odds closed and the position closed out for 3 points, then a goal was scored, immediately odds went back out to 1.06 moved to 1.04, so opened a position a closed out at 1.03, so good start to the evening. martin |
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great stuff mart, how are you finding things on the mental side of things? i found it can get quite tedious and alot of patience is needed and the temptation to splurge out on a "bet" would always get the better of me, mainly because the stakes i was using were quite low so the profit wasnt to high which really tested my patience. are you using set stakes so profit is the same on each trade and liability is manageable or are you increasing stakes as the bank grows? seems like youve got a good system set out now with the points targets you have set for yourself, keep up the good work!
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quin
ive split the playing bank into 3 so that i have a maximum of three open positions, as the bank increases the stakes can increase, but to tell the truth the stakes may stay the same during the trading period, and then increased to the new figure the following day. its not boring, cause im monitoring 3 open positions, and looking at what is going on in the next games to see what opportunities there are, against their previous stats, so if i see a game i then check my reference sites to see what happened in the past. im not tempted to throw any rogue bets, as i have set out targets with upper and lower parameters, for each 21 and 30 day period. dont get me wrong this isnt easy, im looking to work hard to achieve. martin |
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as long as your organised and have discipline your half way there, so fair play to you. i only ever had one position open at a time, maybe two sometimes if they were on the same game (u2.5 and u3.5 for example), how do you keep tabs on all the positions? do you just open up extra tabs on your internet explorer or have you got betting software? i downloaded the geeks toy once but i didnt like the interface so never really took the time to get used to it as im quite happy with the one on the betfair site, im not sure if its true but im sure ive heard people talk of softwares that miss out the 8 seconds to put the bet on inplay, which would definately come in handy.
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quin
i run open tabs the open positions on the left and reference sites on the right. i am running this on one screen at the moment, but i want to beef it up, to 2 screens, and quite large screens hopefully. i downloaded geeks and bet angel, but and have tried them, but not over the moon about them. one thing that i need to try and get round is where an in play bet is cancelled at the time of a suspended market, as i have to reset the bet to close a position, so anyone with a pointer in that direction please let me know. i use the grid on the betfair site, and the graphs to track the money movement, i dont think you can get rid of the inplay time delay. update for this evening i got 7.2 points profit, not bad for less than 3 hours work. tomorrow there are about 35 games that i will work. martin |
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thats some pretty hardcore trading, i make it around 220 trades at 0.03 gain per trade!! 2 screens is definately an advantage my brother had 2 screens set up when he was in england but that was just so he could watch a game on one and look at the odds on the other, not really necessary in his case but it certainly helps when you have bets on multiple markets, youll have a room with monitors covering the walls at the rate your going haha
 . im sure that there is a box that you can click on the my bets section, something like keep bet or something like that, i never used it myself but im pretty sure it has something to do with keeping the bet in place after the market has reopened from suspension. |
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quin,
read the first line then went straight to my account, ive done 14 trades this evening, actually very quiet for me. i have had other stuff to do this evening, so didnt want to leave any open positions, so i expect that i have lost a few points that disappeared as time went on . and i think ive only churned 4 times my bank balance this evening. i have the room, and i would love 4 screens, 1 for sky/feed, 1 for internet pictures, others for open positions, etc, dell and hp do a fantastic touchscreen, which one of my clients use, and the betfair site is great to use on it, as well as bet angel. but i need to be making a decent amount per month to justify that outlay and set up, it would be an addition to my home office. the truth is i quite like it on the one set up i have at the moment, but the truth is i will need a second screen if i want to scale this up. martin martin |
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ahhhh its just you said you made 7.2 points? i thought you meant made your stake back 7.2 times, maybe you meant ticks? how scaleable do you think trading is on betfair? as i have had success trading and have a pretty succesful system but the maximum stake i got up to was £30, which is where the impatience creeped in with the low profits. im 22 today so im only young so i want to do something with my life, im in the process of joining the army but obviously after some years doing that i would like to use the money that i would have saved up to start what i was doing again but with higher stakes (more profit, less loss of interest and patience will not be tested), i know i can make with ease 25% back on my stake a day, which with decent stakes is a decent ammount of money.
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quin
when i talk about points 1.05 closing down to 1.02 is a 3 point profit against the stake, therefore £1000 stake gets a £30 gross profit. my total bank is divided by 100 to find the point value, therefore if there were £900 in the bank, then a point would be worth £9 so a 10 point day target is £90 and a 20 point day target is £180. obviously the larger the point gain per trade, the lower the total bank turnover will be. martin |
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ahhh yeah i get you now, 1 point is 1% so 1 tick, just got a little confused because i say 1 point is 100% or 100 ticks, you also work on % gains on overall bank? i used to always work on % gains off stake so my numbers would mean slightly different things to yours, what about your views on how scalable trading is on betfair?
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quin
i dont know how scalable this is, there are rumours around that some people make a living doing it, but what is the definition of 'a living' 20k 30k 100k ??? or more. it does appear that there is a lot of money on offer to be matched and then you look at the traded values, which can be significantly less, i think some people will place a whole load of money in the market, and as soon as a value is matched, the unmatched values cancel themselves out. and also what is the longevity of doing this ?? before you go insane, or loose interest, i think you need to set achievable goals and then achieve them. im staking over £100 per trade, without any problems, when i hit a certain figure then a proportion of profit will be withdrawn, which will reset the stake level for the next 30 day period back down the money range. martin |
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I have basically been doing this for a while now to get betting money for risky bets. I have posted most my bets up on the under 6.5 goals challenge. I usually go for a large goal cushion for unders and trade out when I see fit or earn a certain percentage (1 tick = 1 percent for me).
I find it quickly adds up and then I use a portion of my winnings on riskier trades for more points - riskier ones being backing the favourites when 1-0 up either HT or FT and trading out but usually they get a second before odds drop enough. Current bets on u5.5 Instituto after 3rd goal and under 3.5 in Libertad after 1st goal. Trading is by far the best way to build a bank on here. |
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Well i finished yesterday on 9.38 points, so only .62 point short of the target. so im happy with that.
martin |