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The Ashes
The Ashes
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I have never liked Nathan Lyon or Stuart Broad for that matter but Nathan Lyon is a World Class bowler make no mistake. The fact that England batted worse than schoolboys does not make his bowling average, which, it was on the first innings fair enough. He is a kwality player and ought to get a little more respect.
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It baffles me how he manages to get the amount of wickets he does, he's a part time spin bowler in the 90s in my opinion
He obviously baffles plenty of batsmen as well Over 350 test wkts so the guy is no mug despite the opinions of a few on here |
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SS thinks averaging over 60 in tests for a batsman is no big feat.
No wonder he's baffled by a 'part timer' representing his country for years now as the lead spinner. |
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He gets many of his wickets because he tends to use over spin instead of side spin as his main weapon. This sometimes makes it harder to pick up the length as the ball tends to dip at the last minute. It also bounces quite high and he gets many wickets in that way also and that is why he likes bowling to right handers and the perceived wisdom is that an offie should be bowling to lefties.
Still don't like the bloke! Not in Giles class FFS! Really? I would have to agree with that. Definately not in the same class as Ashley Giles! |
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Lyon is nothing more than a decent spin bowler
Its the lack of patience and stupidity from todays can't be bothered to dig in generation Back in the late 90s early 00s he'd have struggled to get any wickets Roys dismissal today was the perfect example "f*** it ive got 28 lets go mental and blast this out the stadi... f*** he's bowled me  " |
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And the most infuriating thing is they don't even read the situation
28 to 34 is totally pointless because we are chasing an impossible score, so going to smash the leather of that delivery is dumb is any book We needed them to dig in and grind out a draw, but Roy decided for that one delivary to go after a cheap 6  Bonkers and mental |
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That's bad batting. I don't understand how you can use that to say Lyon is average. Its not his fault the batsmen are stupid.
You were making no sense with Steve Smith yesterday either. Calling Stokes and Woakes ordinary bowling all rounders to justify Steve Smith being an ordinary cricketer. If Steve Smith averages 60 with a stupid technique(I don't know what work you used but you made fun of his moving around), why is it that others with proper techniques don't average anywhere close, let alone better? Do you have an explanation for that? Or do you think every batsman in the world is ordinary in today's times? |
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Smith was made to look better than he was I stand by that
I find it hard to think a lad with his iffy technique can keep wracking up runs like he does. I remember South Africas trio of bowling machines Steyn, Morkel and Philander had his number a few years back, bowled with pace, line and length and he had no clue. You put those 3 in our team with our conditions and he'd been nicking to slips all series. In Australia they'd bounce him out in my opinion. His average is inflated with the poor bowling he's faced, which is odd because its much more bowler friendly today |
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In fact we can go more recent, where he had to get his youngster to cheat with sandpaper in South Africa
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My advice to our bowlers is go yorker length on him, he shows his stumps a lot so aim for them, he misses and we hit?
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Sontaran your observations and judgement really stinks imho
I don’t know why you are so angry with Lyon and Smith. I dislike Smudge immensely and called him a cheat when I saw him in the a World Cup but he is shaping up as a great batsman, not Cookie great but proper all time great! His idiosyncrasy does not make his technique poor just unusual. He practises harder than anyone |
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In era gone by , with players who had the focus and discipline needed , it would have been no result at stumps.
How many times do test matches last the duration in the 21st century ? They all want to play baseball . |
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I would prefer England to batter the Aussies but nobody can doubt Smith even if he plays for the opposition ... his average early in his test career was 333 and now over 60 so it has greatly improved ...
At this moment of the series with some of our players badly out of form and others not good enough at Test level I think only Stokes would get into their team |
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*33
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Broad would get in as well
Anderson if not injured would probably get in as well, the rest I have to agree with I stand by what I said about Smith and Lyon, made to look better than they are by our bowling and none existent batting, although I think Australia win this series easily |
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My advice to our bowlers is go yorker length on him, he shows his stumps a lot so aim for them, he misses and we hit?
I ashley think there is a grain of merit it this though although it is over simplistic. If we keep bowling straight and he gets 140+ in each innings the strategy though correct in theory is not working! When he comes in is the time to get him out either nicking off or missing a straight'ish inswinger. The most successful bowler against him is the slow left arm although that might be skewed because the Great Rangana Herath got him out a lot, but he got a lot of people out! He likes to get bat on ball first up so I would try and nick him off with slips but still look for the inswinger so have a leg slip, fine leg and a midwicket but bowling mainly 4/5th stump or wider but have the confidence to bowl him a straight one as a surprise. If you can't get him out early then you have to bowl one side of the wicket with a six three field. Either wide outside off early on six offside three leg side or bowl straight with six on the leg and three on the off. My leg theory would have a leg slip, fine leg and leg gully / backward square leg, deep square leg as square as possible maybe one short mid wicket and a mid on. If the bowlers can hit their marks you might try two short mid wickets. The bowling would have to be extremely disciplined on line. Length and pace should be varied. You could also have different bowlers bowling either straight at one end and wide outside off from the other particularly if there is any pace, bounce or hint of movement. The idea is to either try and dry up his scoring areas or make him hit with a chance of hitting into the air and pack those areas. I notice we did not play the Lords man of the match who not only should bravery and batting application but is a SLOW LEFT ARMER! |
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You can't just bowl yorkers at him all the time agreed
bouncer, bouncer, short, full, yorker then whatever for the final delivery Pepper him with bouncers as well, try to hide some of them, mess around with the pace as well, make him think a lot more Because just bowling the same type of ball over after over isn't achieving anything, they've got to mix it up with the "it" ball being the yorker He moves around a lot and that would throw him off |
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It might be they've tried this though but aren't skilled enough in pulling it off
Its harder to put it into practice out there in the middle  But hopefully they are trying it |
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yorkers are the hardest delivery to perfect ?
They can easily become full tosses or be sprayed around when trying to bowl fast |
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Who bowls good yorkers?
Fast and slow? Archer is untried and doesn't look good enough for test cricket  |
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Who bowls fast, and straight?
Who hides his change of pace well. Who has great control of line and length? Who bowls really really fast? Archer is untried and doesn't look good enough for test cricket  |
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let's not overrate this australian team. minus smith and warner they were thrashed at home by india in the winter. their batting line up is full of holes too. head, wade and paine must one of weakest 5, 6 and 7s they've fielded in living memory
made to look much better than they are on sunday by an england attack down to about 2 proper bowlers without anderson, moeen totally out of sorts and woakes strangely hardly bowled |
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We need the the groundsmen to prepare seamer friendly pitches in the next few matches to allow for movement otherwise we can't beat them ...
Archer could have an influence because of his pace but we need to see if he has the consistency to bowl full and fast under pressure As for Smith they need to dry up his runs ... bowl to a 5th stump to try and tie him up ... If there is movement every batsman is susceptible to a nick or two |
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Australians have played more red ball than England this summer. Just saying!
This is not the best Australian batting line up ever nor the worst! They are decent enough on a flat or slow wicket. They have some strength lower down the order too and that used to be England's advantage, not now. |
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I would say that's still our advantage, WD
Woakes, Broad and Ali can all supposedly bat a bit and are 8,9,10 We had them in all sorts of trouble at 120/8 and let them off the hook there, then had them level with 6 wickets in hand with Stokes well set on 50, then collapsed Had them 3 down before they got level and then starting bowling part time spin How they conspired to lose that test by 250 runs is anyone's guess, it was a thrashing scorecard wise but we were on top multiple times in the test |
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re: roggrain • August 5, 2019 7:53 PM BST
This post sums it up for me, but on a more fundamental level. If you have no hope of winning you should know how to block out for a draw against all types of bowling - the basic premise of a Test match is to defend your wicket at all costs and score runs only as they arise naturally and if they improve your position. The opposite is often true when overs are limited, but professional cricketers should know the difference for the situation they are in. |
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CS, best part of 2 days were lost to rain in that sydney test. india clearly would have won otherwise
australia's recent test results are every bit as ropey as england's if england go down by a margin of more than 1 test in this series it will be the worst result in a major home series in decades. the oz and west indies sides who routinely used thrash england at home would brush this australian team aside with the minimum of fuss |
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Archer is the most likely to bowler to dismiss Smith. Leach could follow Kesh and Herath in SLAs who have success against him.
The selection of the shot to pieces Moeen was as bad a decision as we've seen. According to Aggers he was dropped TWICE in the WC. Roy's shot was a disgrace and Bairstow's 1st innings one was a close second. Archer got 6 wickets today at Blackstone for Sussex 2s and then a quick 50. He will have a big impact over the next month, on slightly larger grounds... |
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injera, could yet see a worse one with him retaining his place. wouldn't rule it out even it though it's obvious to anyone his confidence is lower than a snake's belly and has been for months. the 2 moon balls were clear evidence that something is not right at the moment
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I wouldn't put it past Root/Bayliss. They're fiercely loyal to certain players and the 'way they play'.
Mo was apparently attempting a doosra with his donkey drops. Why? My bigger issue with his bowling are the constant hip balls. Offies pitching straight, spinning and helping the batsman turn through the leg side off the back foot. It's a the ball you bowl in T20 cricket to keep it to a single. In Tests those singles and rotation kills you. He and the captain aint very bright.. |
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indeed he just couldn't keep the same batsman on strike for even 3 or 4 balls in a row on sunday. was milked for endless singles. he was effectively dropped during the match with root and denly bowling 25 overs cos he couldn't be trusted. would be incredible if he's given another go after that
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Roy would have been told to play his natural game. And that's what you get. It's the Root way. Ignorant. Root doesn't see 3 formats. He sees one way to play cricket.
Bayliss is disconnected from his captain. No way does he sanction this. At Lord's when Roy got cleaned up in the 70s, Bayliss said 'he needed 170, not 70...' Root, instead, 'took the positives'. |
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On Day 4 Woakes bowled just two spells of 5 overs and 2 overs.
Was an explanation given for this lack of action? |
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injured his hand on saturday but apparently was fit. some guff about managing the workload of the bowlers with anderson out but if they didn't want him to bowl that many overs he should have bowled first up with broad when the lights were on and it was quite gloomy. little point saving him for the afternoon session when the game was running away from england
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Thanks
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