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Mrs Thatcher?
Mrs Thatcher?
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Funny old world. Talk about defecating or urinating on a Prime Minister's grave, one who was respected here and internationally, talk about wild celebrations and tramping the dirt down and you get a free pass. Object to this nonsense and you are derided as a fascist.
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So we're agreed that I'm a better parent than she was?
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Stalin was respected nationally, Hitler was, to start with, as well. So international respect don't mean much.
I think there are only (as always) a minority of posts looking for the "free pass" and - as ever - a majority moaning about the minority as if they were the majority. fwiw, I thought Thatcher's passing was sad. Sad that it wasn't about 40 years earlier. There you go everyone!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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No idea Mikael. Not sure it's relevant. People didn't vote for her to bring up their kids. Just to change the country so that their own kids would have a shot at getting on. I never voted for her by the way.
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was she wrong about the Falklands?
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Stalin was respected nationally, Hitler was, to start with, as well. So international respect don't mean much.
Spectacularly confused post Study. Welcome back. |
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*typo, should have said Internationally twice.
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That's a keg of worms in itself Jayco. I'll preempt one of the usual foam flecked suspects who will be crying about The Belgrano and accusing Thatcher of engineering the conflict so that she could win the 83 election.
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I will say about Thatcher that she was not as two faced and deceitful as the likes of call me dave and gideon
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It's a shame that most of us won't get to see this, but I truly and firmly believe that in 50 or 60 years time kids will be taught history and it will have been firmly established that she obliterated British society and also framed the cataclysmic changes that will forever have reduced the standing of the country in the world.
Sorry EO, I know you hate people having a go about your bird. |
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I have no problems whatsoever with people making reasoned criticisms. Acting in the way people did when she died and subsequently is poor form and can be contrasted with the respectful way people generally responded to the deaths of prominent left wing politicians like Benn and Foot.
You may well be right about how history is taught in 50 years time. Revisionism is already in vogue and academia is predominently left leaning. I wonder whether you may erred on British history being taught at all though. It seems to no longer have anything like the prominence it did as a subject and where it is taught there are some rather strange priorities. |
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Academia, the Press, the BBC, etc etc......
They're ALL left-leaning. It's like a catchphrase on here. Yet it's patently NOT the case, however much 'not left-leaning' people claim. No revision would be needed, btw, in vogue or otherwise. As for politicians like Benn and Foot, or even McMillan or Heath, people were generally more respectful because they (the politicians) didn't cause the abject misery, destruction and relative poverty that Thatcher caused. |
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Heath gave your country away.surrendered to the French of all people.
Heath destroyed the soul of Britain,softened it up so much that you have British people openly helping Calais criminals and being lauded for it. You have Muslims telling you they want Sharia Law and your people are so kowtowed they daren't even disagree. |
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I see you've brought quite a few straw men back with you Study. Generally the press are right leaning. Rich capitalists who tend to buy up newspapers tend to be centre right leaning. There have been lots of left leaning papers but they often lose money and go out of business. You've still got The Mirror, The Guardian, Morning Star etc. Sadly The "Independent" seems to have gone the way of others. I don't claim the BBC to be left leaning as such. I do believe that as an organisation it is liberal, multicultural and pro EU. I stand by my comment about academia. It's almost a badge of honour which must be worn. Of course there are some academics who buck that trend in the same way that there are some left leaning papers.
didn't cause the abject misery, destruction and relative poverty that Thatcher caused. That's the problem though. No matter how loud you shout only a relative few see it that way. Just because you believe it to be true viscerally doesn't change reality. Don't get me wrong. That is very much how I saw her at the time but growing up tends to allow you to take a more balanced and considered view. Like I said she did some good things and some bad. Like all politicians. |
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Do you dream about muslims, Wildman? Is there sharia law? Where is all this lauding going on?
Seriously mate, you need to do something else, get your mind onto other things, you'll drive yourself mad(der). |
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Not only did Heath do that wildman but he did so based on a flagrant and deliberate lie. He knew what the European project was all about and refused to divulge this to the people because he knew this was not what the British people would want.
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Just a straight agree to disagree then, EO, merely on the basis that I cannot think of a single thing that she did which could I would consider to have been a good thing.
Unlike you, I didn't see her so much like it at the time, my more balanced considerations have evolved more from a growing up of my own, as well as seeing how all the changes made have affected (fukt up) so many lives on a still ongoing basis I'm not sure the Morning Star has a massive circulation, tho. |
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It hasn't but if it was any good or the politics appealed to the people then it would be doing a roaring trade. Of course we don't agree. That's a divergence of political opinion. If you really think she never achieved anything in her political life that's your view and I respect that. Do you think she should have given up The Falklands? She is also credited for helping Reagan stay strong to help bring about the fall of the Soviet Union. She also negotiated the rebate of our own money from the EU.
Were those not notable achievements? |
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lfc1971 • April 3, 2016 11:49 AM BST
You see if we take the Iraq war. Did it have to lead to thousands of deaths. Or could it have been a great opportunity for a free and prosperous Iraq with billions of pounds in aid and medical and engineering help? This is something that people in Iraq must ask themselves. You are a nice bloke lfc1971...but one cannot invade a country killing thousands of people and then claim you are there to help them???? Also what business is it of ours? Otherwise we might just as well argue Adolf Hitler only invaded countries to give them his philanthropic philosophy. If one invade a country one is an aggressor nothing else. Also I know why Saddam was taken down. It had nothing to do with helping the people of Iraq. |
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I contradict myself in saying we can intervene to stop ISIS, on the basis ISIS are too extreme even
by Terrorist standards. |
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I don't think she had as much to do with those things as we have been led to believe. I think the whole Falklands war could have avoided but was allowed to get to the ridiculous levels it did quite propitiously. Having lived in the states briefly (in the 80's) I'd say that what Reagan did wasn't very influenced by Thatcher at all.
Even if Ken livingstone became prime minister by a landslide and unions won the right to run all companies and the top 10 newspapers closed down, the Morning star still wouldn't get any readers. |
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But aren't you rewriting history there? Of course things could always have been done differently but let's not forget in relation to The Falklands all the naysayers at the time. The narrative of the left which has her creating a war so she could be reelected is shot through with holes. On Reagan and Thatcher I suggest you read some of the biographies of the two but if you don't want that how about a comment from the man on the other side?
"Thatcher was a politician who had a strong voice," Gorbachev said in a statement that noted their relationship evolved gradually. "At the end, we were able to reach an understanding, and it was a contribution to the change in atmosphere between our country and the West and to the end of the Cold War." |
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I can't think what we could have done differently over the Falklands other than turn our backs on the islanders and did nothing.
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A decent moderator would move this thread to the correct forum
chit chat is for chilling out guys  |
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Where's annie when you need her?
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him
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Semantics my good man.
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Thatcher had already agreed with the US Government to cecede sovereignty of the Falklands if Argentina removed it`s forces and that`s a fact. I think I would call that turning her back on the islanders.
She destroyed the fabric of British communities, turned worker against worker and created the "I`m All Right Jack" society which prevails today. She encouraged people to live on the never never and people with moderate incomes to buy their council houses knowing that people heavily in debt would be less likely to strike, giving employers and the state full control over them. |
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Thatcher had already agreed with the US Government to cecede sovereignty of the Falklands if Argentina removed it`s forces and that`s a fact. I think I would call that turning her back on the islanders.
I'd agree if that's correct. Do you have a citation for this "fact" Mighty? |
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And that's a fact.
 You know immediately it's bu11ch1t. |
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She encouraged people to live on the never never and people with moderate incomes to buy their council houses knowing that people heavily in debt would be less likely to strike, giving employers and the state full control over them
I can imagine the meeting of the WSP that came up with that rubbish. How can we put a spin on this? Ah I know lets say ...................... |
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I must admit this is getting confusing. My senses have been assailed by Study saying she wasn't that important but she was evil and now Mighty is saying she'd have used Machiavelli as a tooth pick.
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Says the Tory who has never voted Conservatism in his life
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That was to aka EO
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That`s how the NHS is almost bankrupt, the billions spent on anti depressives to half the nation who are up to their eyes in debt.
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Come on wheres yer proof?
mac ye know yer beaten when you ignore the question and attack the messenger. |
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Loads would disagree with you mac. Great time if ye were willing to graft.
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EO a Ukip er
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I've seen declassified papers which suggest that she was more open to negotiation than history suggests but that at the heart of any change in the status quo would have to be the will of the Islanders. Nothing more than that.
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I'm a vote for hire Capt. Corrupt to the core.
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