I quite agree, and I think Obama is trying
the trouble is public opinion the US and here is rather against us sending any more of our boys out there

I agree IS need to be defeated, they are just mad

Cherioes

Everything.

"IN THE HOLE"

I would say

the americans are decent people. but i have three problems with them-
1. too much nationalism.
2. too many evangelical christians. i dont like religion. secularism is the way forward.
3. the gun culture - this is something i will never understand.

You're like La Motta to my Robinson ebul. I kep hammering you but you keep coming. Gotta admire a guy with your sense ofoptimism that this tie it might be better.

Lambert and Graves are among nearly 50 scholars presenting papers this week at “From Enemies to Allies,” a conference on the War of 1812 at the U.S. Naval Academy in Annapolis. Graves argues that part of the US war aim was to wrest Canada from the British. He says American historians contest the idea that Canada was the object of the war. But whether it was or not, it was “the only place the United States could fight a war against Great Britain.” With a navy a tenth the size of the Royal Navy, the U.S. certainly couldn’t take on the British on the high seas.

But Don Hickey, a professor of history at Wayne State College in Nebraska, says that’s one of many myths surrounding the War of 1812. The U.S. went to war over British maritime policies, he argues; the Orders in Council, which restricted U.S. trade with countries under the dominion of Napoleon, and the British practice of impressing American merchant seamen into the Royal Navy. “Canada was the means to achieve concessions on the maritime issues,” he says, “not an end in and of itself. Although if we had conquered Canada it’s possible we would not have given it up.” Because the Canadians weren’t part of the run-up to the war, it looks to them as if the United States “simply invaded Canada, hoping to conquer and annex it,” he says.

Despite their disagreements about the start of the war, they agree about the end. The British won, despite what Americans may think. The British kept Canada, as well as the maritime policies that Americans say were the reason for the war. Still, almost everyone involved walked off happy. The Americans are happy because they think they won. The Canadians were happier because they know they won--they remained part of the British Empire. And the British are happiest because they’ve forgotten all about it.

It depends who is saying it. At a golf event? Yes. In Scarlet Johanson's bedroom? Oh go on then.

Of course you'd reverse the roles ebul. You have to convince yourself you've got a chance to get into the ring in the first place. Doesn't alter reality though and it doesn't matter if you lose the battle as long as the war is won or your aims are secured. Both sides went into the war with aims and the British emerged the stronger for it with their key aims secured and even the yank scholars conceded that was the case. Of course the average American thinks it all went peachy because that is their nature. Give it another hundred years or so and Vietnam will have been a stirring victory against the odds.

It is not so much about being right or wrong here EO

I take a different view on this
The USA attacked Canada, but with our help, the Canadians defeated them. So Canada won. They established themselves
as an independent  country that was strong enough to defend themselves against the USA.

But we attacked the USA. With the intention I assume of bringing the USA back into our empire. But we were defeated, we had
to sign a peace treaty, the USA emerged as a country strong enough to defend themselves against Britain. It confirmed the
result of the American revolution.

So Canada and the USA were both winners in a sense, we lost.

Although I do not believe we could have re-imposed the trade monopoly we used to have on the USA before the revolution
I feel the British Empire would have been stronger if it included the USA.

I think it was a tragedy we lost the USA, I think we lost them too early.

Just my own interpretation of History EO.

You take me far too seriously ebul. Of course there are no right and wrong answers in a debate, you just throw your argument and evidence on the table. I can no more change your mind if you are so inclined than I could convince Mad Lad that he hadn't been abducted and bugggered by aliens or Melly that this forum is a figment of my imagination.

Self-appointed world police.

What a bunch of miserable and charmless creatures the British are...The US have achieved more in science art music and technology in the last 200 years than any nation in the history of mankind. Pipe down and look at what a **** nation Britain has become.

Now that **** Tiptheodds will be on to say how ghastly Americans are...the dishonesty and stupidity of the British working classes..

TiptheOdds
15 Jan 15 20:44

Lfc will be along shortly to tell us how the yanks are wonderful, and invented all the best things in the world bar none, blah blah...

You´re as predictable as Fox News..

lfc1971     17 Jan 15 17:15 
Unlike most of you I have lived and worked in America..they are in the main more able, well mannered and less arrogant than the British.

If it's so great, why would you return to this cesspit?

consider how much the u.s.a.supplied the rest of the world with as lend lease during the second world war . it's absolutely staggering .

I hate that YewWwww thing as well. I can't even say it. I can mimic most accents but I can't get my tongue round that one. How do you say it?